Cowboys

[oldtimer]

Just renewed my NICEIC membership for the 3rd year £475.00 and insurance next week is due then the usual coffee and scone with the onsite assessment and another year battling against the rogues ! What a crock ! my JIB card says im competent and it also costs us £475.00 and an onsite to prove we are so why not have a loophole where we can take our JIB cards to the LABC and insurance and this enables us to bypass the schemes and satisfys LABC were competent enough to do the stinking job we've qualified for and doing for years ?
Part p grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

In Scotland if you are not registered then "some" local authorities will accept test sheets with a colour copy front and back of your SJIB card along with a copy a a current calibration certificate now you may say thats not right but here is the rub as an electrician you are not legally obliged to "register" with a scheme it is only a recomendation but some LAs are saying you must be registered where others are hedging their bets as they are no doubt aware because it is not an legal obligation to be registered they in fact could be taken to court for not allowing an individual to conduct his or her free trade . Remember if legally you had to be registered then you would not get insured and as I have said for years the starting point for us electricians is the JIB or SJIB I do not know about England but here as far as I am concerned we are all SJIB registered they hold information on how long you have had your card and qualifications, etc so why the hell are we not using it as a central register for Joe or Jean public to log on see your grade qualifications and also if your are insured plus if you earn over say £120,000 then you have to get registered as it is pretty obvious that you have a couple of employees.

PS also if you think the JIB/insurance thing would not work then remember the next tim yo log on for a tax disk because the system can check if your car/van is insured and road taxed so this system can work it can free up people like me to carry out my legal daily business without getting me so tied up with a registration company who lets face it could not give a ---- about a business earning £250,000 and why do I say that because it is in their schedule if you earn over this then they want a 1% cut of your profits above it.

Also forgot to add when Screwflux opened their Electroflux counters they told me I could not register with them as I was not Part P or registered when I explained to them that they were trying to impose English regulations in Scotland I got a very nice phone call from their Scottish manager who said yes you are correct we are changing this in Scotland so that you will get a Electriflux account on the presentation of your SJIB card

 

[Amp David]

IMO probably the best way to start preventing any old fool doing major electrical work is to stop selling bulk electrical supplies to the public.

Problem with that though is how is it policed, eg the proper spark who has no scheme membership etc but does a proper job, how does he prove to the supplier hes legit.

Good idea but i think its need a lot of work to make it happen properly

 

[pblec]

not all of us are JIB (i am - but thats not the point)

Part P is not rocket science but also as you read on here only applicable to domestic, i don't know half the terms the industrial guys post up on here it may as well be a totaly different language, but i know my drilling zones socket heights and whats notifiable. if it was to go off JIB then obviously part p would have to become a qualification added on, so your JIB card now says part p approved you're laughing jobs sorted - apart from my gold JIB card says qualified supervisor for part p on it so its already done.

i don't think its down to quals its down to policing, domestic is easy and because its easy everyone thinks they can do it.

 

[oldtimer]

pblec I hear what you say but if they are meant to police it as you say how come I have never heard of anyone having their registration withdrawn from them one instance up here was a "registration" company asked another member to sort out in their words a mess on a job but the individual who caused it is still trading and still registered. I am not against registration infact I want it to work but there is a balance here if you look at the gas safe system yes it is great but certain big companies are pressuring their staff not to go to a job and do it but to sell sell sell . in my view we need to simplify things this multiple registration schemes is the the same mess the building trade got themselves into years ago but I still say that it is an "infringement on free trade" to prevent an individual from going about their daily legal business. And again we are not going to stop Joe Bloggs doing his DIY electrics the only thing that will stop this is the insurance companies when they put a clause in their policy that say if your house is damaged or burns down due to your diy electrics then we will only pay out 50% of the policy and if you dont think this will work then an example would be the USA years ago who realised that (at the time) battery smoke detectors saved lives and properties so they gave you a discount on your policy if you fitted them then eventually they made it maditory or they would not insure you so as I say these are the people who will drive this not us not government or registration companies..

 

[Merv]

To my mind Part P actually encourages cowboys, simply because they can readily undercut the registered tradesmen who are now lumbered with it.
If extra legislation were introduced to enforce Part P, then who would have to pay for it?
Certainly not the electricians who are asking for it.
The taxpayers would have to pay, or the immediate consumer through the higher cost of certificates, and they never wanted Part P in the first place.
All I can see here is people conspiring to protect their own interests, and someone else having to foot the bill.

 

[Merv]

Sorry about the large fonts and the bold, that was unintentional.

 

[Merv]

That's better.

 

[supasparxs]

IMO probably the best way to start preventing any old fool doing major electrical work is to stop selling bulk electrical supplies to the public.

Agree,
If B+Q, screwfix or whoever stopped selling twin and earth then the cowboys wouldn't be able to buy the materials

I have been in engineering wholesalers just to buy a Tap and been refused as they have a minimum spend policy, as they are trade only. (I was pi**ed off at the time, but understand it)

 

[Merv]

What’s so special about electricians?
Why not just close down all DIY outlets and builders merchants to the public?
That would protect all tradesmen from cowboys.

Well you started it!

 

[Merv]

Then when you want to fit a new door to your living room, you can pay through the nose, and then again for a bit of paper saying that it was fitted by a tradesman.

Marvellous.

 

[loony7]

I think we need to encourage the governing bodies to raise the publics awareness of Part P, with the public aware of Part P they will be more inclined to use registered electricians and not the Pub Cowboy.

 

[supasparxs]

What’s so special about electricians?
Why not just close down all DIY outlets and builders merchants to the public?

I don't mind,
it would have saved me fitting the new en suite, bathroom and about to fit a kitchen

but "she who must be obeyed" wouldn't be to keen



Joking aside

if someone hangs a door badly it is extremely unlikely to kill or injury someone however electricity can be dangerous.

That is why for plumbers, Corgi and now Gas Safe came along

 

[Merv]

I agree with supasparxs that if a door is fitted badly it's unlikly that anyone will come to any harm, but the same can't be said for all building work.
The comparison with gas safety does not stand scrutiny either.
If a gas explosion occurs it could easily affect people in properties either side, or above and below as well in the case of flats.
True a fire could do the same but theres no potential massive explosion resulting from an electric fault.

I think the level of enforcement as it stands now is as good as you’re going to get.

 

[Merv]

'' forcing out the cowboys''

Is this in the interests of safety, or in the interests of ensuring a good living for qualified electricians?
I suggest the latter is foremost in the minds of most on here.

 

[kung]

theres no potential massive explosion resulting from an electric fault.

Welcome to a lost neutral at a sub !