Crimping or Soldering Flex cable

[wayne305]

Evening all, hoping someone can clear something up for me.

I was told today that all stranded flex cables need to be pin crimped or soldered before connections are made, eg, for a towel rail or small wall heater etc. He said the regs were altered in April 2012?

This is the first I've heard of this and just want to know if anyone can confirm this is true?

Cheers

Wayne

 

[CockneyReject]

? honestly my hand crimpers are easier than the ck/knipex rachets mate uses

Never used the ck or knipex ones but I'm more than happy with mine over the plier type ones, each to thier own I suppose

I cannot see a problem with the plier type for most types of install
I know it's made off properly yet I'm always in doubt about the ratchet type due to the reasons I posted earlier
I own 2 ratchet crimpers both give the square shape and 2 of the plier type (round) I think the pliers give a better mechanical connection , never been able to pull one off easily but have managed to do so on ones done via ratchet crimpers
Just my opinion.

no problem with them mate just personal preference and I very rarely have had that happen myself it's only usually when I've been too quick and not crimped it fully

 

[Darkwood]

If you can pull them off then it one of many reasons -

You have the wrong type of crimp for the cable
Your cable is too small for the crimp
Your crimps are of poor quality
You made a poor crimp
Your crimping tool is worn and needs either adjusting if an option or replacing.

You should not be able to pull off a crimp without going to extremes in which you'd end up damaging the cable core(s) anyway, many people crimp using a standard ratchet crimper for the insulated red/blue/yellow crimps onto solid core cables -- this is a big no no and has been a point of discussion on here many times, a suitable type of crimper for a solid core would be an indent crimper not one that effectively reshapes the whole crimp where the cores or the cable need to move about into the new shape.

 

[Carlosfandango]

If you can pull them off then it one of many reasons -

You have the wrong type of crimp for the cable
Your cable is too small for the crimp
Your crimps are of poor quality
You made a poor crimp
Your crimping tool is worn and needs either adjusting if an option or replacing.

You should not be able to pull off a crimp without going to extremes in which you'd end up damaging the cable core(s) anyway, many people crimp using a standard ratchet crimper for the insulated red/blue/yellow crimps onto solid core cables -- this is a big no no and has been a point of discussion on here many times, a suitable type of crimper for a solid core would be an indent crimper not one that effectively reshapes the whole crimp where the cores or the cable need to move about into the new shape.

I for one am guilty of using 1 crimper for all. I've just been looking at buying a new crimper, do I need 1 for ferrules, 1 for uninsulated crimps, 1 for insulated crimps?

 

[shanky887614]

I for one am guilty of using 1 crimper for all. I've just been looking at buying a new crimper, do I need 1 for ferrules, 1 for uninsulated crimps, 1 for insulated crimps?

yes.

they are different types.

 

[Carlosfandango]

This might be an expensive purchase, but seeing as it's for new tools....a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do!!

 

[Carlosfandango]

Anyone got any good recommendations, preferably ratchet ones? I've been looking at knipex ones, any good?

 

[Darkwood]

I have 6 crimping tools for general use probably over £250 worth ... I have no doubt that many of the poor joints out their are because of incorrect crimping tools and general ignorance to crimping correctly, its amazing how many Electricians don't even possess one well the £1 market stall crimpers are not included as that is just a sign of a cowboy sparky.

Many domestic Electricians may only use a crimper on a earth tag maybe for a SWA banjo to terminal but end up making a poor crimp that when tested is fine with good ELI reading but forget that crimp has to survive 1000amps plus in a fault and thats when its structural integrity is put to the test. Colleges do not spend enough time drilling this info into students yet its a big cause of problem joints and fires.

 

[Carlosfandango]

I have 6 crimping tools for general use probably over £250 worth ... I have no doubt that many of the poor joints out their are because of incorrect crimping tools and general ignorance to crimping correctly, its amazing how many Electricians don't even possess one well the £1 market stall crimpers are not included as that is just a sign of a cowboy sparky.

Many domestic Electricians may only use a crimper on a earth tag maybe for a SWA banjo to terminal but end up making a poor crimp that when tested is fine with good ELI reading but forget that crimp has to survive 1000amps plus in a fault and thats when its structural integrity is put to the test. Colleges do not spend enough time drilling this info into students yet its a big cause of problem joints and fires.

Any suggestions for a good brand darkwood? Are the mid range ones much worse than the top of the range ones?

 

[Marvo]

I've had a set of DMC crimping tools for a few years and I'd highly recommend them. They get heavily used and abused and they still pass a calibration test. https://www.dmctools.com/Products/dct_series_crimp_tools.html

 

[Darkwood]

Had mine that long Ive lost touch with who's who out there but mine are adjustable so can be tightened as they get worn with use, anyone who crimps constantly for a living users top end ones and has them calibrated regular ... not for your average user mid-range should be fine but again Ive lost track, Im sure the recognised brands should be of good quality unless anyone else has input.

 

[edexlab]

If you can pull them off then it one of many reasons -

You have the wrong type of crimp for the cable
Your cable is too small for the crimp
Your crimps are of poor quality
You made a poor crimp
Your crimping tool is worn and needs either adjusting if an option or replacing.

You should not be able to pull off a crimp without going to extremes in which you'd end up damaging the cable core(s) anyway, many people crimp using a standard ratchet crimper for the insulated red/blue/yellow crimps onto solid core cables -- this is a big no no and has been a point of discussion on here many times, a suitable type of crimper for a solid core would be an indent crimper not one that effectively reshapes the whole crimp where the cores or the cable need to move about into the new shape.

Agree completely
I usually try and pull crimps made up on a bit of scrap wire as a check that they've been done properly ie correct crimps/crimper for the job and that the ratchet is working to the correct pressure etc
Always buy a good quality crimper the main reason I started checking them like this was because I had to supervise other people and they had various makes of cheap crimpers and it caused problems for the very reasons you listed.

I find people assume that because its a ratchet crimper they think it'll be perfect every time.

As for makes I have Ck plier type and Haupa ratchets which have been reliable and consistent
I think the haupa are a good alternative to the more expensive Ck ones

 

[shanky887614]

Agree completely
I usually try and pull crimps made up on a bit of scrap wire as a check that they've been done properly ie correct crimps/crimper for the job and that the ratchet is working to the correct pressure etc
Always buy a good quality crimper the main reason I started checking them like this was because I had to supervise other people and they had various makes of cheap crimpers and it caused problems for the very reasons you listed.

I find people assume that because its a ratchet crimper they think it'll be perfect every time.

As for makes I have Ck plier type and Haupa ratchets which have been reliable and consistent
I think the haupa are a good alternative to the more expensive Ck ones

saying that ive got a cheap silverline crimper and it has never failed yet on insulated crimps

 

[edexlab]

Each to his own, I'm not a tool snob but from my experience I wouldn't buy something like that made in the far east! , I'll always be looking for something made in Germany or another country with similar quality tools but only reputable companies as you know it's going to last, I don't mind paying for the quality, sadly we don't seem to have any quality tool manufacturers here anymore

 

[PEG]

Admittedly i am a bit of a tool -----,but,good end results rely on good kit to achieve success. I own various crimps,basic plier type,ratchet and hydraulic,and have some of the above. Sometimes spending fortunes on kit,without understanding the principles of what you are trying to achieve,both at termination and in the future,is not helping anyone. I guess this is what Darkwood was hinting at. It is disheartening,when i listen to any time-served technician,who discounts the minutia of these seemingly simple operations. I remember that even a "basic" discussion of such mechanical terminations,would involve such topics as metallurgy,differing stresses and factors effecting longevity. At no time,do i remember any instructor or lecturer saying "copy this,and the jobs a good-un..." ...my goodness,i had no idea i suffered from crimp-rage...:stooge_curly:

 

[CockneyReject]

Here's one for the hand crimping tool fans out there, was flicking through the compex toolbox guide today and there's a little paragraph that states only ratchet type crimp earring tools should be used as they give a solid and even crimp unlike hand type ones (or words to a similar effect)