Crossed Polarity smart meter into mains

[HS2018]

hello!

Just looking for some advise,
Basically we had an electrician fitting a new shower and lights yesterday, he tested a light socket before touching it (after turning all fuses off) and it was live... come to realisation an electrician working on behalf of an energy supplier had fitted the smartmeeter into the mains the wrong way round (crossed polarity?!) and all the sockets, light switches and light fittings were the same downstairs.
The electrician shut our electricity down straight away and told us we weren’t to turn anything on until the contractor came out to fix it as he couldn’t touch it, he said he’s amazed the house didn’t burn down (they came out, done reports, took photos 12 hours later with two children under 2 in the house) at 11pm
I’m just wondering how bad this is and where do we stand?
Obviously not getting much info from the energy suppliers and just wanted to know the best course of action


Thank you

 

[HS2018]

So hes been before and done work but only just noticed? i guess when it came to the box on the minor cert or eic asking about confirming polarity he must have just ticked that box?
That is assuming he came after the meter was installed?
lets be honest though a lot of us have done small jobs without thinking before now when only changing a cracked accessory or quick like for like pendant etc..

But once again we have a case of poorly installed smart meter! the rate they are training the meter fitters up I am surprised more of these arent coming to light. but i suspect the home owners are unaware until an electrician comes around. I recall that recent episode of watchdog exposing the shoddy practices.

Our electrician has been before the meter was fitted and also after, as he fitted everything before he knew something was wrong and eventually got to the smart meter.
The contractor company (another guy not the same one) came out and had his supervisor on the phone the whole time and had to take photos for the first guys disciplinary today. His supervisor told him he had to turn the electric off for the night and to remove the tails (forgiven me if the wrong terms) and we got a notice to say why.
I don’t want to see anyone out of a job, however if he has indeed put my family at risk for a year, heads will roll

 

[HS2018]

Yes keep us informed we would definitely like to know the outcome.

I will do, we’ve been told an estimation for the contractors report of between 2-10 days & HSE are investigating both the supplier and the contractors so will update as and when I can

 

[littlespark]

If the polarity was reversed, was the meter running backwards?

 

[HS2018]

If the polarity was reversed, was the meter running backwards?

that’d been a better outcome!

 

[telectrix]

this is what happens when you let loose meter monkeys with 1 day's training , whereas ( won't mention any names) a highly respected,qualified , and experienced forum member was turned down for the job . word is he's over 60 , so unsuitable for employment.

 

[buzzlightyear]

rule number one, the meter installer should have tested for polarity
on a socket some where ,in my opinion.

 

[telectrix]

meter fitter should stick a wet finger on his neutral , if he survives, it;s right.

 

[Rpa07]

@Murdoch , I think you were a bit harsh on the electrician in this instance and made no comment on the incompetence of the meter installer who’s job it is solely to check polarity, fit a meter and check polarity again.
Just my opinion but. . .

 

[PEG]

@Murdoch , I think you were a bit harsh on the electrician in this instance and made no comment on the incompetence of the meter installer who’s job it is solely to check polarity, fit a meter and check polarity again.
Just my opinion but. . .

Mmmm,however,this is the dude who did not practice safe isolation,where he should have...and he would have still,found the issue.

As for the meter fitting,i despair... i am prepared to believe some of these Hunger Games bit-part players,could find a "third way",to connect two conductors.....like those M C Ischer drawings of cricket stumps with two at one end,and three at the other...

I did a post,a while ago,regarding one such fellow...he got indignant,in the extreme,as i suggested he needed a 4 pole isolator,in the fitting of a RHT meter,replacing two old,separate meters.

He repeated 4 times,how it would not work,as it would "short".

Eventually,and with the most patience and manners possible,i drew him a wiring diagram,with a child's felt-tip pen,on the side of a cardboard wine box,in the garage...He had an actual,not a metaphoric,face-palm moment,and asked to tear the drawing off the box,and take it with him.

The above incident formed one payment of compensation,out of four,to the owners,by the supplier...

 

[mache]

Agreed that polarity check should have been carried out before and after the meter change...but I did notice the comment of 'the electrician said the connections were reversed at the consumer unit' live to neutral and neutral to live... Most people I've spoken to the meter fitter does not change tails to the CU, only disconnects and reconnects at meter. Could be that the polarity been reversed for quite sometime. Which a proper polarity check should have picked up.

 

[stevels4]

Not only is the reverse polarity a serious meter installation fail it would appear from the only photograph shown that the cut out tails appear to be 16mm on the neutral and 25mm on the live, another fail.
All black cut outs are also reportable to the DNO as a MOCoPA C17 code as their construction materials can result in them becoming conductive leading to a detectable surface voltage being present.

 

[HS2018]

Thanks for the info people- it’s really appreciated
Now that my head is clearer I just wanted to clear a few points as I’ve read back and not made a few points very clear

Our electrician did practice safety guidelines by disconnecting power at the consumer unit before touching any light fixings (this is how he found the problem)

The live and neutral wires were crossed at the mains unit- not in the consumer unit. At the consumer unit they were fine.

Our electrician turned off all power as he stated in 50 years of doing this he had never seen “such shitty” work done before, he was then unsure of what else could be wrong, wasn’t allowed to touch anything the meter fitter had done, so in the interests of safety he turned all power off. Our energy suppliers contractors took 9 hours to reach us as they told us to get UKPN out first who looked at it in disbelief & phoned our suppliers himself to get them there ASAP (three more hours)

Our electrician had been before and wired our whole house- so he’s done all of our house. The meter was fitted one year ago & we only just had the electrician back this week- so the first time he’s been since the meter was fitted (so he couldn’t have known before about the crossed polarity before)

The DNO was shocked and couldn’t believe this had happened & couldn’t apologise more (even though it was a colleague not himself), his superior was on the phone the whole time, me and my partner were asked to sit on sears safely out of the way until he could go through the whole consumer unit to check all work. his colleague has now been dismissed & will not work in electrics again.

The wires into the mains also didn’t have any seals on them (even though I’m not sure what this means)

This is all now being thoroughly investigated by the HSE, Ofgem have been informed & also an investigation into our energy supplier and the contracting company.

I just wanted clarification of if this was a dangerous situation for my family to be in for a year as I couldn’t find anything online about this reversed polarity from a smart meter into the mains- thanks for the responses I’ll keep you updated

 

[HS2018]

Hi Steve, thank you for that- should this be something I should be flagging up with the DNO or will they have covered this in their report do you think?
Thanks for your time
QUOTE="stevels4, post: 1365839, member: 103455"]Not only is the reverse polarity a serious meter installation fail it would appear from the only photograph shown that the cut out tails appear to be 16mm on the neutral and 25mm on the live, another fail.
All black cut outs are also reportable to the DNO as a MOCoPA C17 code as their construction materials can result in them becoming conductive leading to a detectable surface voltage being present.[/QUOTE]

 

[Strima]

@HS2018 two scenarios as an example.

1. Depending on the supply to your installation reverse polarity could have potentially caused a fire under short circuit conditions as the circuit protective device would have been in the neutral and the only device protecting that circuit would have been the DNOs fuse which may not have operated in time.

2. Your better half has been nagging you for a couple of years to change the light in the living room so you decide to change it with an Ikea special. You turn off the circuit breaker and start to rip out the ceiling rose as you assume the circuit is now dead. However you haven't carried out the safe isolation process and as the neutral has been switched off the circuit is still live. Big blue flash and you're on the floor getting measured up for a pine box.

In short reversed polarity is a risk to life and property.

 

[telectrix]

deleted

 

[telectrix]

went to a similar situation about 30 years ago, when the DNO and the supplier were one and the same. meter fitter has crossed the polarity and it was fine for several months. then a short circuit on the immersion heater occurred. result was a fire which destroyed the upstairs of the house. luckily nobody was injured, but the DNO received a hefty bill and a H&S investigation was carried out. don't know if anyone was sacked as it was a sort of nationalised industry then. sack an idiot and the whole workforce came out on strike. God bless Maggie .

 

[Pete999]

Not only is the reverse polarity a serious meter installation fail it would appear from the only photograph shown that the cut out tails appear to be 16mm on the neutral and 25mm on the live, another fail.
All black cut outs are also reportable to the DNO as a MOCoPA C17 code as their construction materials can result in them becoming conductive leading to a detectable surface voltage being present.

Better change that cut out to a Wallaby one then ,if the All black one s are outlawed.

 

[HS2018]

Thank you for the info, Funnily enough the DNOs fuse blew a few minutes before the electrician cut the electricity- he didn’t know why and said it was too much of a coincidence but as he wasn’t allowed to touch it, he couldn’t change it to see. Also didn’t get any answers as to why this happened from the contractor as he wasn’t allowed to answer many of our questions, as requested by his superior on the phone. QUOTE="Strima, post: 1365893, member: 54489"]@HS2018 two scenarios as an example.

1. Depending on the supply to your installation reverse polarity could have potentially caused a fire under short circuit conditions as the circuit protective device would have been in the neutral and the only device protecting that circuit would have been the DNOs fuse which may not have operated in time.

2. Your better half has been nagging you for a couple of years to change the light in the living room so you decide to change it with an Ikea special. You turn off the circuit breaker and start to rip out the ceiling rose as you assume the circuit is now dead. However you haven't carried out the safe isolation process and as the neutral has been switched off the circuit is still live. Big blue flash and you're on the floor getting measured up for a pine box.

In short reversed polarity is a risk to life and property.[/QUOTE]

 

[stevels4]

Better change that cut out to a Wallaby one then ,if the All black one s are outlawed.

I didn’t say they were “outlawed” they are just reportable under MOCoPA to the DNO

 

[Octopus]

In short reversed polarity is a risk to life and property.

As I previously stated, in a domestic situation there are extremely few occasions where reversed polarity is dangerous ............. and obviously you would always isolate the circuit before you fiddled...

Having no earth is a bit more serious ............

When our meter was replaced a few years ago, the installer who did it, checked the polarity with one of the plug in testers before he did the work and afterwards.

Just saying.

 

[johnduffell]

In domestic reversed polarity must be dangerous.

Things are designed to need two problems before you get killed. This takes many aspects of the install to only need one thing wrong.

Never mind single pole isolators not working, and polarity on ES fitting being wrong, all the fault protection is in the neutral thus useless.
Rcds are usually dp, but in an all RCBO install that's not present either.
Only thing worse would be a tn-c-s earth coming from the line...

 

[johnduffell]

Duplicate, sorry!

 

[Pete999]

In domestic reversed polarity must be dangerous.

Things are designed to need two problems before you get killed. This takes many aspects of the install to only need one thing wrong.

Never mind single pole isolators not working, and polarity on ES fitting being wrong, all the fault protection is in the neutral thus useless.
Rcds are usually dp, but in an all RCBO install that's not present either.
Only thing worse would be a tn-c-s earth coming from the line...

You uping your post as well mate (a joke)

 

[johnduffell]

Sorry no idea, blame my phone for being slow

 

[stevels4]

As I previously stated, in a domestic situation there are extremely few occasions where reversed polarity is dangerous ............. and obviously you would always isolate the circuit before you fiddled...

Having no earth is a bit more serious ............

When our meter was replaced a few years ago, the installer who did it, checked the polarity with one of the plug in testers before he did the work and afterwards.

Just saying.

The correct procedure is to check for correct polarity at the cut out and meter connections using a none contact voltstick, then check for correct polarity at the CU using the voltstick across the live busbar or MCBs and then use a socket tester to confirm at a socket. After installation of the new meter the tests are performed again using the same socket.