Customer doesnt want us to complete!

[MTI]

Ok guys looking for some advice. Will be contacting my scheme provider and LABC tomorrow.

basically builder starts wiring an extension and then calls me in to finish it and sign off. I told them i cant do that and it will need putting right as i cant even see their first fix due to plastering. Expressed this to customer too.

customer asks you to do work in other areas to be renovated to include putting right existing (not builders work) and alter/upgrade things to suit building works. You agree to work direct for customer on agreed day rate plus materials.

You do all you can for customer and help out builders by fitting in with their work to suit as you go along. Bits get done here and there as needed. Things are incomplete here and there and certain things need putting right as agreed with customer prior to works starting

Builder takes tons of cash from customer and requests more and more in a short period of time equating to more than agreed price. Customer gets upset although you have worked directly for customer and are not involved because builder quoted a ballpark in his amount for electrical and you told customer that is nothing to do with you and you agreed a day rate and estimate timescale. I did a ton of work like i was on price!

Customer makes part payment for a couple of days work and materials delivered and is happy. You then go away for a few days to come back and find customer is v upset and cant afford to continue. On top of this, builder has tried to do more work to get further money, not be kicked off job and even has installed more circuits in many places, altered yours and caused chaos in a nutshell!

Given that id first and second fixed an area hoping to come and test and energize on my return to find out its been altered massively is not my fault. Another example is one area/new extension required a sub CU fed from main board so id installed some circuits before i went away and did a bit of 2nd fix here and there and mounted new said board. Builder alters and adds cables in non prescribed zones!!!! to suit further work whilst your away so they can board areas.

At the end of all this, customer will not pay up and i cannot complete the works i did, remove and put right the wrong bits that builders did nor test and cert. I cant even say if alterations are energized now where id been working and not got to complete as along with others were told to pack up and leave on what was just supposed to be another normal day at work!

its a real royal mess! please advise guys and please do not shoot me down. this is out of my control! and i said id never work for builders and i didnt - i worked for customer who shot me instead! out of pocket and out of mind!

 

[chilliwilly]

cash and no agreement here but bring in the forensics and open a can of worms! i just gave a vague invoice for works to date at short notice in hope of payment before i left site for the final time but it didnt work. I usually attach my final invoice and any agreements or letters with the cert on completion. Thats what you get when a builder in a pub invites you on site

I know what you mean, its a bad way to conduct business with strangers, its bad enough when they phone and have you come to meet with them.

 

[valleybilly]

Elecsa back up installers who don't get paid & insist no cert should be issued , nic are talking tosh , Never been given my MOT till Ive paid have you ? . Tell nic until they become MD's in your company ' which they think they already are ! Not ! then the Terms & conditions of any contract you decide to write & get the customer to sign are valid & this includes certs provided upon final balance paid & free tea ! .

 

[R G]

Elecsa back up installers who don't get paid & insist no cert should be issued , nic are talking tosh , Never been given my MOT till Ive paid have you ? . Tell nic until they become MD's in your company ' which they think they already are ! Not ! then the Terms & conditions of any contract you decide to write & get the customer to sign are valid & this includes certs provided upon final balance paid & free tea ! .

you will find contractual arrangements have to be kept seperate from Certs and notification process!!

 

[chilliwilly]

Elecsa back up installers who don't get paid & insist no cert should be issued , nic are talking tosh , Never been given my MOT till Ive paid have you ? . Tell nic until they become MD's in your company ' which they think they already are ! Not ! then the Terms & conditions of any contract you decide to write & get the customer to sign are valid & this includes certs provided upon final balance paid & free tea ! .

I know what your saying and I don't agree with them, but the niccy have some strange policies, and they're out to look after the public and not their members. But for whatever their reason the firms join them, they have to comply to their policies. Which one of them is submitting an NICEIC endorsed cert on completion of works. Allowing the contractor to be potentially p!ssed on by their customer.

I know with gas certs they have to be submitted to the customer by law, even if they haven't been paid, otherwise the gas safe business can be removed from the register and in some cases RIDDORED. The trouble is with that scenario, there is no other register for gas.

 

[shanky887614]

you will find contractual arrangements have to be kept seperate from Certs and notification process!!

you can't test a circuit till its finished and if a monkey comes along and the circuit no longer conformes to reg's then you cannot power it on as its no longer your problem and it would make the circuit safe

 

[valleybilly]

you will find contractual arrangements have to be kept seperate from Certs and notification process!!

Your quite correct ' Invoice in 1 pocket , Certs in another .

 

[Des 56]

I know what your saying and I don't agree with them, but the niccy have some strange policies, and they're out to look after the public and not their members. But for whatever their reason the firms join them, they have to comply to their policies. Which one of them is submitting an NICEIC endorsed cert on completion of works. Allowing the contractor to be potentially p!ssed on by their customer.

I know with gas certs they have to be submitted to the customer by law, even if they haven't been paid, otherwise the gas safe business can be removed from the register and in some cases RIDDORED. The trouble is with that scenario, there is no other register for gas.

There you are,all you need do now is decide if those words apply (considering the work is incomplete and/or doubts about who did what)

You have been Stung enough without pandering to alarm bells about wholly unnecessary certification:rockon:

 

[varilite]

Say to inspector I will give certificate without payment first if you do my assessment without payment first

 

[High Tower]

Ok haven't read all of the posts but a few points from me.

The NiC will tell you you cannot withhold Certs, and they are right!, the regs state that installations must be inspected, tested and certified upon completion, and withholding the Certs contravenes this!.

So the OP's situation.

1, document a written account of what has gone on in chronological order, including what has been agreed, done, said and altered, and more importantly by whom.

2, if you can, take pics, but don't worry if you can't, as they don't prove who is responsible for the bodgery.

3, report to LABC and you scheme

4, copy the correspondence to the client with a letter explaining that the installation is unsafe and does not comply, and that it should not be energised.

6, add to this correspondence a invoice for works completed as agreed by them at the rate agreed by them. Explain that they have 7 days to pay in full, after this time the value attracts the statatory 8% that you are legally allowed to levy, advise them that after 14 days it will be passed for collection. Refer them to your account of proceedings if they have any issues with this.

7, after 14 days issue a county court claim form( free and easy to do)

Always remember that the responsibility for anything electrical lies with the last person who touched it.

Sounds like relations are poor so you have nothing to loose by getting hard and serious with them!

http://justclaim.co.uk/court-forms/N1-claim-form.html

 

[shanky887614]

Ok haven't read all of the posts but a few points from me.

The NiC will tell you you cannot withhold Certs, and they are right!, the regs state that installations must be inspected, tested and certified upon completion, and withholding the Certs contravenes this!.

So the OP's situation.

1, document a written account of what has gone on in chronological order, including what has been agreed, done, said and altered, and more importantly by whom.

2, if you can, take pics, but don't worry if you can't, as they don't prove who is responsible for the bodgery.

3, report to LABC and you scheme

4, copy the correspondence to the client with a letter explaining that the installation is unsafe and does not comply, and that it should not be energised.

6, add to this correspondence a invoice for works completed as agreed by them at the rate agreed by them. Explain that they have 7 days to pay in full, after this time the value attracts the statatory 8% that you are legally allowed to levy, advise them that after 14 days it will be passed for collection. Refer them to your account of proceedings if they have any issues with this.

7, after 14 days issue a county court claim form( free and easy to do)

Always remember that the responsibility for anything electrical lies with the last person who touched it.

Sounds like relations are poor so you have nothing to loose by getting hard and serious with them!

Just Claim :: N1 Claim Form

yes but this guy didn't complete!!! the work so its no longer his problem.

infact the client told him to leave site thus ending the contract and by bringing in someone else to do the electrics it is no longer his responsibility to provide certs as it is no longer his installation

 

[telectrix]

The NiC will tell you you cannot withhold Certs, and they are right!, the regs state that installations must be inspected, tested and certified upon completion, and withholding the Certs contravenes this!.



yes, but the work is not complete and therefore cannot be inspected and tested, so he can't prepare a cert. end of.

​

 

[telectrix]

that's easy. They're empty.

well spotted that man. thanks have been posted. sorry, moospark, he just pipped you to the post.

 

[amlu]

hit and a miss with the builders, i`m deep in s*it now too, got half of 4 bedroom rewire payment after first fix done,
to be paid other half when completing the job. builder firm went bust on 90% completed job, after taking more than quoted amount from the customer. including my and plasterers 2nd fix money...

 

[High Tower]

The NiC will tell you you cannot withhold Certs, and they are right!, the regs state that installations must be inspected, tested and certified upon completion, and withholding the Certs contravenes this!.



yes, but the work is not complete and therefore cannot be inspected and tested, so he can't prepare a cert. end of.

​

I wasnt refering to this case, hence i made this point before i started on the OP's case.

the op has been absolved of all responsibility for the work and certs because of the actions of the client and the builder

Hence my post was all about what he should do next!

 

[R G]

hit and a miss with the builders, i`m deep in s*it now too, got half of 4 bedroom rewire payment after first fix done,
to be paid other half when completing the job. builder firm went bust on 90% completed job, after taking more than quoted amount from the customer. including my and plasterers 2nd fix money...

OMG, Best you can do is see the customer , see what they offer , another poxxy builder , best of luck mate.