Death penalty

[Octopus]

There was a pub in Guildford that was bombed, the bombers were caught and would have hanged. Later they were found not guilty.
Good job we didn't have a death penalty then.

Mind you the IRA weren't exactly squeaky clean when it came to many of their autrocities!

 

[plugsandsparks]

There was a pub in Guildford that was bombed, the bombers were caught and would have hanged. Later they were found not guilty.
Good job we didn't have a death penalty then.

Ah, the old "we know he's guilty, he has form you know" ....."all we need is the evidence" , queue stitch up... lol

 

[Besoeker]

I'm against the death penalty.
I'm old enough to remember the Derek Bentley Case.
We've had the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, and other cases where there was a wrongful conviction.

If the guilt or otherwise is determined by a jury of twelve people with no particular qualifications other than being between certain ages and on the electoral roll, how can we be sure that they will get it right?

We can't. And, as has been pointed out, the death penalty is irreversible.

 

[Des 56]

There was also Timothy Evans who was framed by Christie,it seems there were many mistakes that could not be righted and that's why as much as my instincts say hang the bstds, my reasoning says not whilst the sentence may be wrong,and that is always

As a add on
Prison however is another matter

No Human rights whilst inside
Min 12 hour working day
No leisure whatsoever (not even a book),just time to sit and reflect on the crime and look forward to the next 12 hour shift

The sentence will have been deemed a success if the prisoner comes out vowing that he would rather die than go back inside
Rehabilitation will be for the prisoner to concern himself with,that should not be societies problem

 

[rapparee]

Ah, the old "we know he's guilty, he has form you know" ....."all we need is the evidence" , queue stitch up... lol

That actually happened quite recently brian shivers a man convicted of the masserene barracks shooting in 2009, he has since been released and apparently totally vindicated.

 

[rapparee]

As a add on
Prison however is another matter

No Human rights whilst inside
Min 12 hour working day
No leisure whatsoever (not even a book),just time to sit and reflect on the crime and look forward to the next 12 hour shift

The sentence will have been deemed a success if the prisoner comes out vowing that he would rather die than go back inside
Rehabilitation will be for the prisoner to concern himself with,that should not be societies problem

The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.

 

[Adam W]

there's the concept of Papal Infallibility as he has a direct line to god (allegedly)

I seem to recall the Vatican backpedalled on the idea of Papal Infallibility after the last Pope made less than complimentary comments about the Islamic prophet Mohammed. Whether his comments were 'true' or not isn't the point - going public with the comments risked sparking an angry backlash.
This demonstrates that everyone gets it wrong sometimes, even those who are supposedly infallible; if the Pope can get it wrong then so can a judge sentencing someone to the death penalty. Wrongly sentencing someone to the death penalty would surely constitute murder, and therefore the death penalty? But then new evidence could come to light proving the guilt of the person originally convicted, and the judge who sentenced the other judge faces trial, and it all gets a bit bloodthirsty.

There will always be people saying rape is wrong, and all rapists should be branded equally, even face the death penalty. I think it's important to realise not all rapes include violence, often it's a question of consent, which as long as it can be retrospectively withdrawn will cast doubt over many convictions. Again if it's found that a woman withdrew her consent and cried rape, sending an innocent man to his death, she could also then face the death penalty.

I'm not saying the Pope is right because he's the Pope, but I happen to agree with him on this.

 

[trev]

There was also Timothy Evans who was framed by Christie,it seems there were many mistakes that could not be righted and that's why as much as my instincts say hang the bstds, my reasoning says not whilst the sentence may be wrong,and that is always

As a add on
Prison however is another matter

No Human rights whilst inside
Min 12 hour working day
No leisure whatsoever (not even a book),just time to sit and reflect on the crime and look forward to the next 12 hour shift

The sentence will have been deemed a success if the prisoner comes out vowing that he would rather die than go back inside
Rehabilitation will be for the prisoner to concern himself with,that should not be societies problem

So what do you say about certain european countries where the emphasis on a prisoner is education and rehabilitation? Stats prove that these countries have a very low re-offending rate

 

[rapparee]

This demonstrates that everyone gets it wrong sometimes, even those who are supposedly infallible; if the Pope can get it wrong then so can a judge sentencing someone to the death penalty. Wrongly sentencing someone to the death penalty would surely constitute murder, and therefore the death penalty? But then new evidence could come to light proving the guilt of the person originally convicted, and the judge who sentenced the other judge faces trial, and it all gets a bit bloodthirsty.

Danish, Norwegian and Swedish) have a word, the Swedish variant of which isjustitiemord, which literally translates as "justice murder." The term exists in several languages and was originally used for cases where the accused was convicted, executed, and later cleared after death. With capital punishment decreasing, the expression has acquired an extended meaning, namely any conviction for a crime not committed by the convicted. The retention of the term "murder" represents both universal abhorrence against wrongful convictions and awareness of how destructive wrongful convictions are. Some*Slavic languageshave also the word (justičná vražda*in Slovak,*justiční vražda*in Czech) which literally translates as "justice murder",*


Lifted from wiki

 

[Des 56]

So what do you say about certain european countries where the emphasis on a prisoner is education and rehabilitation? Stats prove that these countries have a very low re-offending rate

Nothing whatsoever,what they do is their business

I do however feel that society makes rules that we all live by,if we don't agree with a law.as a society we get rid or change that law

Doing wrong is a criminals decision.
I have heard pleas over many years about deprivation and inequality and the like being the cause and that the criminal is just a product of society
Being poor or from a disadvantaged family or the like is no excuse at all, ever

If a crime is committed,the penalty must be very severe in all cases,it should also be very very early in a criminals career
I happen to think that a person is the decision maker, when it comes to crime, its their decision to continue with crime or to learn that it does not pay

I have very strong feelings about criminality and have no time at all for concerns of rehabilitation by the state, or excuses of why a criminal acts,I believe punishment is the only tool that will curb the ever growing capacity of the criminal to commit those acts

 

[trev]

Des I never claimed that criminality is anything other than a personal choice. However, these countries who place an emphasis on educating and rehabilitating the convicted have a lower recidivism rate than those who solely emphasise punishment.
A guy I know went to prison when he was young and stupid, he realised that being there was the punishment and that he could use his time behind bars to his own good. He knuckled down and hit the books, very, very hard. He's now a productive member of society, he's living a good life and is a very good father to his kids who are pretty firmly on the straight and narrow.

 

[rapparee]

I'd also be weary of following the americans and their prison industrial complex, where prisoners are used as slave labour in private institutions placed there by a corrupt judge

 

[trev]

More on that. I'd be very wary of the privately run prison organisations which will undoubtedly campaign for stiffer sentences for minor crimes. I don't think it'll be a good thing for our society if our prison system were ran for profit by companies.
Prison ran systems like Gordon Ramsey and a few others tried to introduce I have no problem with

 

[ian.settle1]

What do you think about countries like Indonesia which gives the death penalty to people who are court carrying illegal drugs in large quantities?

 

[trev]

I don't agree with the death penalty no matter what. However, if you're stupid enough to carry any item into a country which prohibits it then you pay the penalty prescribed by their law and no amount of intervention by the Foreign Office is likely to change that