DECC launch FIT review

[TedM]

These are the relevant tables:

 

[SRE]

Looks like EPC of D status stays but must be before date of commissioning.

Apologies if this is a stupid question - so the D rating must be achieved without including the solar? The vast majority of our work doesn't qualify because if oil/lpg installations if that's the case.

 

[Somecamel]

Apologies if this is a stupid question - so the D rating must be achieved without including the solar? The vast majority of our work doesn't qualify because if oil/lpg installations if that's the case.

That's my understanding of it as well

 

[solarsavings]

Another daft question: The export tariff?

And another one: Can anyone make these figures work. Solar portal says it equates to a return of 4.8%.

 

[Somecamel]

Export is staying as it is, including staying at RPI.

I can make them work albeit with a much leaner business model.

 

[SRE]

Is there any indication that costs are going to drop? We're really sitting on the fence with this. We were going to do a bit more property development but our capital is tied up in a house we're letting to flood victims for the next 6 - 8 months so I could do with keeping solar going for a bit longer but can't really make the figures stack up.

 

[Somecamel]

I'm not sure how much more panel prices can drop what with the Minimum Import Price so that only really leaves Inverters and mounting.

I'm lucky as I live in the South East so can easily generate 1000kWh per kW installed so the numbers stack up better down this way whereas in Edinburgh for instance it's 852kWh per kW installed.

I'd imagine there'll be a lot less competition as well when the ex double glazing lot bugger off.

Storage is an option but not quite ready yet.

 

[TedM]

Return on a 4kWp at 1000 kWh/kWp

gen tariff 4000 x 4.39p = £175.60
export 4000 x 50% x 4.85p = £97.00
offset 2000 x 13p = £260.00

total = £532.60

to get:
7 year break even = install cost £3728.20
8 year break even = install cost £4260.80
9 year break even = install cost £4793.40

compared to the pre-15th January rate of 12.03p

gen tariff 4000 x 12.03p = £481.20
export 4000 x 50% x 4.85p = £97.00
offset 2000 x 13p = £260.00

total = £838.20

to get:
7 year break even = install cost £5867.40
8 year break even = install cost £6705.60
9 year break even = install cost £7543.80

So looking at the 8 year break-even you have a difference of 6705 - 4260 = £2445. I can't imagine prices can drop that much.

Over the full 20 year life it is a reduction for the householder of (838 x 20) - (532 x 20) = 16760 - 10640 = £6120

 

[Somecamel]

I'm staying positive and am confident we can install 4kW systems circa £5500-£6000.

What I think will happen though is there will be a lot more >4kW+ systems coming under the 10kw banding 'space permitting'.

That would greatly improve the ROI as our installation charge isn't going to double for say an 8kW system over a 4kW.

The Old Tariff bands did warp the market slightly, what we need now is a better way of asking for DNO permission for the slightly bigger systems or even better, the removal of the 16amps per phase limit so we can get on with the installations quicker especially considering the new caps (which I must admit, I'm not quite sure I fully understand yet).

Either way this is going to a testing time.

 

[SRE]

We're doomed :-( Best we can expect is 3400kwh and that's unusual these days.

 

[whinmoor]

Apologies if this is a stupid question - so the D rating must be achieved without including the solar? The vast majority of our work doesn't qualify because if oil/lpg installations if that's the case.

What if the date of the PV commissioning and the EPC are the same? I do our EPCs personally when the panels are on the roof and include the PV to give the score a "boost". Usually it's not necessary to get the D but occasionally it is.

It seems silly to me to do the EPC in advance as it will be inaccurate within a couple of weeks when the PV is added. It makes much more sense to do it either at the same time or after the PV has been fitted.

 

[SRE]

I'd say that 90% of the time we need pv to get a D rating.

 

[Gavin A]

on the plus side, there could be some add on work to get the D rating prior to the PV going in, and often the add on work is better payback time than the PV will be, so that could improve overall payback.

Some of it can be pretty simple, like replace heating controller, add thermostats, add insulation jacket to water cylinder, top up loft insulation, add chimney balloon etc.

ALso SRE - you may be aware of this or may not, but IME most supposedly solid stone walls actually have a small cavity if you drill through them, sometimes rubble filled, sometimes not, but EPC assessors usually treat them as if solid. Makes quite a difference if the EPC assessor puts into the software as having a small cavity rather than being solid wall. One of the main reasons that the real world performance of external wall insulation on solid wall properties was nothing like as good as SAP predicted.

 

[SRE]

Interesting point about the cavity Gavin. Most of ours need boiler changes so it's a major change but the cavity situation might make a difference.

 

[Gavin A]

Interesting point about the cavity Gavin. Most of ours need boiler changes so it's a major change but the cavity situation might make a difference.

we've sneaked one in that way that just made it to a D with 1 point to spare.