Departures from bs7671, certification.

[odawire]

Hi, I have always made sure my installs have no departures from bs7671 but I'm doing a ccu change next week and have done some preliminary testing and the heating circuit (boiler and heating controls) has low IR readings, had a look in all obvious places and cant find any problems, had trouble breaking the circuit up as its a bit messy, client has just decorated so he doesn't want any damage to the house, seeing as its all fixed equipment (I'm unsure on the cable routes but id guess its buried less than 50mm at some point) is it acceptable to leave this circuit unprotected and note it on the departures section? all the earthing/bonding is mustard. Any experience on this would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[Guitarist]

Is it not right to do an EIC for the CU change and an EICR for the testing and inspection afterwards? Also if IR test is 7MΩ, it shouldn't be tripping should it?

No, you don't do an EIC and an EICR. You test the circuits before reconnecting to the new CU, and note the readings on the certificate. If they are non-compliant they should not be reconnected.
That said, if you have been asked to carry out an EICR in addition, then there's nothing wrong with that, but it will be a lot more in-depth.

 

[odawire]

No, you don't do an EIC and an EICR. You test the circuits before reconnecting to the new CU, and note the readings on the certificate. If they are non-compliant they should not be reconnected.
That said, if you have been asked to carry out an EICR in addition, then there's nothing wrong with that, but it will be a lot more in-depth.

I do basically agree with what your saying, but the problem is that an EIC does not account for anything outside 17th edition, which just isn't realistic, there must be situations where the CCU is changed but NCS cabling is connected.

 

[odawire]

Even though everyone you've ever spoken to outside the NIC has told you that it should be an EICR?
You are confusing me now...

I never said those people were right, was just explaining my experience, Part P wants an EIC but BS7671 wants a EICR, as I said before either one is acceptable in my opinion.

 

[Guitarist]

I never said those people were right, was just explaining my experience, Part P wants an EIC but BS7671 wants a EICR, as I said before either one is acceptable in my opinion.

Could you tell me where BS7671 states only an EICR is needed for a CU change please.

 

[Rockingit]

Could you tell me where BS7671 states only an EICR is needed for a CU change please.

Good grief, is this thread the reincarnation of 2391?

GN3 to the ready, chaps.

 

[odawire]

Could you tell me where BS7671 states only an EICR is needed for a CU change please.

Its more what it doesn't say, EIC is required for a new installation or changes to an existing installation. It depends how you want to view a CCU change, If your not changing any fixed wiring or maybe just adding RCDs in which case you may not even be changing the protective device. And there are a lot of different opinion's on this, but obviously not on this forum

 

[DPG]

Its more what it doesn't say, EIC is required for a new installation or changes to an existing installation. It depends how you want to view a CCU change, If your not changing any fixed wiring or maybe just adding RCDs in which case you may not even be changing the protective device. And there are a lot of different opinion's on this, but obviously not on this forum

Right, you've answered your own question there so that's sorted at last. What are you going to do about the RCD issue then? Daz

 

[Octopus]

Its more what it doesn't say, EIC is required for a new installation or changes to an existing installation. It depends how you want to view a CCU change, If your not changing any fixed wiring or maybe just adding RCDs in which case you may not even be changing the protective device. And there are a lot of different opinion's on this, but obviously not on this forum

EIC required. Can't imagine how anyone could understand otherwise??

 

[odawire]

Right, you've answered your own question there so that's sorted at last. What are you going to do about the RCD issue then? Daz

lol, ill let you know what happens

 

[Heisenberg]

Its more what it doesn't say, EIC is required for a new installation or changes to an existing installation. It depends how you want to view a CCU change, If your not changing any fixed wiring or maybe just adding RCDs in which case you may not even be changing the protective device. And there are a lot of different opinion's on this, but obviously not on this forum

Apart from a full rewire, a change of CU is probably the most onerous change to an installation you can make, to suggest that what certification you decide to use is down to interpretation is, frankly, ridiculous.
I would bet my house that if you went on the IET forum and postulated the same belief's you have here, you would be shot down just as quickly.
However, if you feel strongly about it, may I suggest you use an EICR for your board change and then use that same installation as one of the ones that gets inspected for your annual scam assessment.

 

[Guitarist]

Its more what it doesn't say, EIC is required for a new installation or changes to an existing installation. It depends how you want to view a CCU change, If your not changing any fixed wiring or maybe just adding RCDs in which case you may not even be changing the protective device. And there are a lot of different opinion's on this, but obviously not on this forum

As the others have said many times now, it's not open to interpretation at all. A CU change is definitely a change to an installation and not open to debate. You will also find it stated in many publications that it requires an EIC.
All the people you have spoken to over the years regarding this matter are simply wrong if they have told you that an EICR is acceptable. Have you personally changed a CU and not issued an EIC by any chance?

As you are changing the CU, you are obviously with a part P scheme. Give them a ring and see what answer you get.

 

[odawire]

Apart from a full rewire, a change of CU is probably the most onerous change to an installation you can make, to suggest that what certification you decide to use is down to interpretation is, frankly, ridiculous.
I would bet my house that if you went on the IET forum and postulated the same belief's you have here, would be shot down just as quickly.
However, if you feel strongly about it, may I suggest you use an EICR for your board change and then use that same installation as one of the ones that gets inspected for your annual scam assessment.

If you read the thread you can see I don't feel strongly about it, Its something I agree with you guys on lol, what im saying is many of people I have talked to over the years have stayed strong with the idea of PIR for a CU change most of them interestingly enough from the IET, and your gonna have to explain that last sentence to me please as I don't like the sound of it

- - - Updated - - -

As the others have said many times now, it's not open to interpretation at all. A CU change is definitely a change to an installation and not open to debate. You will also find it stated in many publications that it requires an EIC.
All the people you have spoken to over the years regarding this matter are simply wrong if they have told you that an EICR is acceptable. Have you personally changed a CU and not issued an EIC by any chance?

As you are changing the CU, you are obviously with a part P scheme. Give them a ring and see what answer you get.

Yes I agree

 

[Heisenberg]

and your gonna have to explain that last sentence to me please as I don't like the sound of it

On this forum, members generally refer to the different part p schemes as 'scams', in reference to the fact they do bugger all for your money and are simply contributing to an overall malaise in the electrical industry.

What I was saying in my last sentence was that if you feel that an EICR is acceptable paperwork for a CU change then use that same piece of work as one of the one's that you have your annual assessment done on. The implication being that you will get a -------ing from your scheme (scam :smilewinkgrin assessor.

Cheers

 

[odawire]

On this forum, members generally refer to the different part p schemes as 'scams', in reference to the fact they do bugger all for your money and are simply contributing to an overall malaise in the electrical industry.

What I was saying in my last sentence was that if you feel that an EICR is acceptable paperwork for a CU change then use that same piece of work as one of the one's that you have your annual assessment done on. The implication being that you will get a -------ing from your scheme (scam :smilewinkgrin assessor.

Cheers

Ok sorry, thought you were being out of order

 

[Heisenberg]

Ok sorry, thought you were being out of order

No problem, and no apologies necessary.

Nothing on here really get's personal, apart from a few idiots who don't last long anyway, but you will find lots of peeps with forthright views who will defend them vigorously. Obviously sometimes 'vigorously' can get a little OTT.

Cheers