Diversity and Showers

[andyelectric]

Hi, please be kind to this Electrical Trainee fresh out of the forces. This is my first question on the forum. One thing that was not discussed in depth on my course was diversity, and reading up there seems a fair bit of subjectivity and difference of opinions on it.

Now that I have my shiny new quals the missus has requested I fit a 2nd electric shower. We currently have a 10kw fitted, and she'd like the same again. Flat has gas heating and cooker, so other loads would be normal household appliances. Both showers would be used as we have a lodger, but would in all reality rarely be used at the same time. Worst case would be both on at the same time for 10m whilst the kettle and washing machine etc were on.

My current supply is as follows. 100A from cut-out(I saw the fuse go in). 80A switch fuse supplying submain run in 16mm swa. Another metal 60A switchfuse then into CU. (Reason for 2nd SF is that it was there already and used as a handy termination for the swa when meters were moved).

My feeling is that I'll be ok with the 60A. I could quite easily change the 2nd SF for a metal adaptable box and henley though, thereby uprating my supply to 80A.

Would you guys on here recommend removing the 60A SF.

 

[andyelectric]

isn,t there types of switches that prevent two showers being run at the same time ??

Ok so it's not been replaced with a link then, why didn't you gland the SWA directly onto the CU when you replaced it? Far better than having the unnecessary switchfuse left in place!

And how about that Zs on the submain?

3 flats supplies pass through my cellar and it was not possible for the swa to reach the new CU. Can't remember the Zs of the top of my head, but it was extremely close to the Ze of 0.31.

 

[EastAnglian]

3 flats supplies pass through my cellar

Now that's the way to do it .... run your electric showers off somebody else's supply

 

[Darkwood]

Andy as a self admitted 5week wonder I normally don't have the time for you and your fast track rip of courses hence you are here asking what would be a basic question BUT!!!! as you have served our country and possibly put yourself in a position that many on here could never imagine I'll find plenty of time for you...

Going slightly off tangent I would recommend you find a job as an Electricians mate for a few years, this will give you vital experience in our real world and give you a guide for all your questions and any corrections to your work.

My input on this thread is nothing more but only my hat off to you for doing a service while most of the benefit scroungers out there think life owes them a living :welcome:
Its clear from Marvo's input that you will have been slated and got a lot of negative comments but I put it to them to commit their own services to this country as you have!
Any future questions you have I'll be happy to help a man of your background!.... regardless of the Electrical Trainee status :icon12:

 

[andyelectric]

Andy as a self admitted 5week wonder I normally don't have the time for you and your fast track rip of courses hence you are here asking what would be a basic question BUT!!!! as you have served our country and possibly put yourself in a position that many on here could never imagine I'll find plenty of time for you...

Going slightly off tangent I would recommend you find a job as an Electricians mate for a few years, this will give you vital experience in our real world and give you a guide for all your questions and any corrections to your work.

My input on this thread is nothing more but only my hat off to you for doing a service while most of the benefit scroungers out there think life owes them a living :welcome:
Its clear from Marvo's input that you will have been slated and got a lot of negative comments but I put it to them to commit their own services to this country as you have!
Any future questions you have I'll be happy to help a man of your background!.... regardless of the Electrical Trainee status :icon12:

Cheers for the advice darkwood. But I have no intention of being an electricians mate at 42 years old. Having worked with electrical gear on ships for many years and having served an engineering apprenticeship I have a reasonsble electrical knowledge and although I am not experienced in this particular field, an average domestic setup is pretty basic, so I can't see there being much to trouble me. I am long enough in the tooth not to work on something I do not feel capable of and not comprimise myself.

 

[andyelectric]

Now that's the way to do it .... run your electric showers off somebody else's supply

I must admit......... But, my electric needs aren't that bad, I don't have a cannabis farm in the cellar just yet. Then again, the cut-out they didn't seal when moving the meters on which the meter man hasn't commented on twice.

JOKING

 

[Engineer54]

Cheers for the advice darkwood. But I have no intention of being an electricians mate at 42 years old. Having worked with electrical gear on ships for many years and having served an engineering apprenticeship I have a reasonsble electrical knowledge and although I am not experienced in this particular field, an average domestic setup is pretty basic, so I can't see there being much to trouble me. I am long enough in the tooth not to work on something I do not feel capable of and not comprimise myself.

And on that note, ...I rest my case!!

 

[andyelectric]

And on that note, ...I rest my case!!

Your case being??????

 

[Engineer54]

Your case being??????

That, ....it is the typical response of a electrical trainee. You've done your 5 weeks so don't need to work as a mate, and nothing much to domestic installations. In your own mind you're now fully qualified!! Right?? ...lol!!

 

[andyelectric]

That, ....it is the typical response of a electrical trainee. You've done your 5 weeks so don't need to work as a mate, and nothing much to domestic installations. In your own mind you're now fully qualified!! Right?? ...lol!!

I have worked as a Royal Navy engineer for the last 22 years, all hands on, and for the last 16 years as head of my own engineering section maintaining and fault finding on a variety of electrical systems.

Certainly the houses I have lived in have had quite simple electrical installations.

I feel qualified to work in most domestic situations. I am well aware that I will come up against situations that I have never before experienced, however my entire career has been filled with situations like that and research inevitably solves the problem.

Where research does not work, I will come on this forum and ask. If I do not feel competent to complete work after all this then I will not attempt it.


Unfortunately, there is not much call for Weapon Engineers in Portsmouth without the company inevitably taking pension monies into account when determining payscales, so I have decided to branch out and do something related but slightly different.

I'd appreciate it if you would stay off any threads I start in future unless it is to provide a reasoned answer to the original question. I believe your last (kindly deleted by Marvo) was "Are you mad" with no reasoning whatsoever.

Elevating oneself on an anonymous forum is an easy thing to do, perhaps you should step down off the pedestal you have created for yourself.

 

[Engineer54]

I have no need to elevate myself as you put it. I will comment on any thread as i see fit, as you or anyone else here can....

Not too sure how being an ex weapons engineer on a navy ship has any correlation with being a domestic electrician, but as you say, you feel qualified so you must be right!!

 

[HandySparks]

Not too sure how being an ex weapons engineer on a navy ship has any correlation with being a domestic electrician, but as you say, you feel qualified so you must be right!!

You have to admit though, E54, that weapons engineer is likely to be better preparation for being an electrician than if he were a shelf stacker or hairdresser?

BTW, I'm not saying that there isn't a lot to learn, even after becoming 'fully qualified' (whatever your definition of that is).

 

[Engineer54]

You have to admit though, E54, that weapons engineer is likely to be better preparation for being an electrician than if he were a shelf stacker or hairdresser?

Maybe, but then you can say the same about all these IT installers, and other vaguely associated professions/trades, it doesn't make them electricians domestic or otherwise does it.

 

[andyelectric]

Maybe, but then you can say the same about all these IT installers, and other vaguely associated professions/trades, it doesn't make them electricians domestic or otherwise does it.

And still waiting for a well reasoned answer to the original question.

I am happy for you to find me "mad" for what I proposed but please indicate why. This is where your experience would help, by providing examples and reasoned statements.

 

[Darkwood]

The way I see it Andy you are well experienced and knowledged in a select area of Electrical Engineering but will have little if any experience as a domestic Electrician qualified or not, Ive had many apprentices from many backgrounds and regardless of previous related or unrelated experiences they all had to learn the basics from scratch with onsite help, having said this you have an edge in understanding Electrics but what I don't understand is why housebashing, this has no relationship to the field you were in. You would be more suited to joining a company of Electrical Engineers and working alongside a seasoned Engineer in the Industrial sector until you ground your feet - better suited, better money, better prospects and key is a shortage in this sector but whatever way you turn you will need guidance onsite or you will find yourself in this situe on a regular basis.

Note - Its advice not a way to belittle what you already know but you also have to realise what you spent 20yrs doing may now be irrelevent as you chose a strange unrelated direction, yes you may be comfortable more than some in aspects of it but you still have a lot of regulations to learn and not just Electrical but Building reg's too and this is a steep hill if your climbing it alone.

Take it as constructive advice and not a personal attack which you seem to be doing.

 

[Andy78]

Just my two penn'th and speaking from my experience only.

My background as an electrician is having being "brought up" in commercial and light industrial installation. First a labourer, then a mate, then a fully qualified electrician. I had about a decade in experience in total when I went on my own as a self employed sole trader, however I had never worked in a domestic situation at all. I did not feel confident to go and start bashing about in customer's homes as it was simply an area I had zero experience in.
I had no qualms whatsoever in subbing to a mate of mine who had done domestic work all his career. I did this to shadow him to gain a bit of experience in domestic work so I could go into my own customer's houses knowing I could now provide the best job possible. I didn't feel belittled or daft and certainly learnt a heck of a lot in doing so.