Diversity and Showers

[andyelectric]

Hi, please be kind to this Electrical Trainee fresh out of the forces. This is my first question on the forum. One thing that was not discussed in depth on my course was diversity, and reading up there seems a fair bit of subjectivity and difference of opinions on it.

Now that I have my shiny new quals the missus has requested I fit a 2nd electric shower. We currently have a 10kw fitted, and she'd like the same again. Flat has gas heating and cooker, so other loads would be normal household appliances. Both showers would be used as we have a lodger, but would in all reality rarely be used at the same time. Worst case would be both on at the same time for 10m whilst the kettle and washing machine etc were on.

My current supply is as follows. 100A from cut-out(I saw the fuse go in). 80A switch fuse supplying submain run in 16mm swa. Another metal 60A switchfuse then into CU. (Reason for 2nd SF is that it was there already and used as a handy termination for the swa when meters were moved).

My feeling is that I'll be ok with the 60A. I could quite easily change the 2nd SF for a metal adaptable box and henley though, thereby uprating my supply to 80A.

Would you guys on here recommend removing the 60A SF.

 

[andyelectric]

Darkwood and Andy I may have not represented myself clearly. I wish to be semi-retired as I have pension and investments to back me up. This would not sit well with working for someone else. Nor would it sit with starting an engineering job. I see 'house bashing' as you call it as something to occupy me, and hopefully bring in a bit of extra cash from. And I like the idea of being my own boss, albeit this might not be an ideal route to take. The course I did was very short I admit, but it did not teach me anything new electrically. Obviously the wiring and building regs were new to me but pretty easy to get your head around. If something seems beyond me I will research, will not be attempting anything that I could be unsafe at.

 

[davesparks]

It's not just the electrical knowledge, there are various practical skills you need to have to be able to do a decent overall job.

 

[andyelectric]

It's not just the electrical knowledge, there are various practical skills you need to have to be able to do a decent overall job.

That is a very fair point Dave, and of course the area where experience counts for a lot. I am aware that this will probably be my biggest challenge. Maybe even to extent of having a practice in my own home prior to attempting something in a customers house if I have never completed it before. I do have a fair amount of hand-skill and have always been a competent DIYer so hopefully that will help a bit.

 

[Octopus]

That is a very fair point Dave, and of course the area where experience counts for a lot. I am aware that this will probably be my biggest challenge. Maybe even to extent of having a practice in my own home prior to attempting something in a customers house if I have never completed it before. I do have a fair amount of hand-skill and have always been a competent DIYer so hopefully that will help a bit.

Absolutely and the worst part is sorting out the mess of DIY dave!

 

[Engineer54]

And still waiting for a well reasoned answer to the original question.

I am happy for you to find me "mad" for what I proposed but please indicate why. This is where your experience would help, by providing examples and reasoned statements.

And here's your answer.... Why would you need two 10KW showers in a flat?? Why not two 8KW showers if you really need two?? As you already have a gas supply for heating, Why not invest in a system that CAN run showers and store hot water??

I have a 4.6 KW shower here (no gas, except bottled gas for cooking) and that unit gives more than enough hot water in the coldest of weathers (not uncommon for temperatures to drop to -10C here in winter)...
Never had nor wanted an electric shower in the UK ever, and certainly not a shower rated at anything near 10 KW!! So as a i said Madness!! ...lol!!

 

[andyelectric]

And here's your answer.... Why would you need two 10KW showers in a flat?? Why not two 8KW showers if you really need two?? As you already have a gas supply for heating, Why not invest in a system that CAN run showers and store hot water??

I have a 4.6 KW shower here (no gas, except bottled gas for cooking) and that unit gives more than enough hot water in the coldest of weathers (not uncommon for temperatures to drop to -10C here in winter)...
Never had nor wanted an electric shower in the UK ever, and certainly not a shower rated at anything near 10 KW!! So as a i said Madness!! ...lol!!

One word... Cost.

I am well agreed that electric showers are poor compared to gas powered off the boiler, but they suffice and an electric shower is much cheaper than a new gas boiler. 2 showers are required as the missus is fed up with baths(the lodger has the first shower in her en-suite). And since we are having a second not much difference between 8kw and 10kw but the missus wants 10.

My question was though.. Will the 60A fuse suffice considering it's very rare the showers will be run at the same time, and not are electric showers any good. I have decided anyway that as it's so easy to remove the 60a I will, and will be on an 80a after the shower install.

 

[Engineer54]

I did say ''Invest''.... In the long run, gas is going to be a far better option than running two 10 KW showers. Still not convinced that anyone needs 10 KW or more showers, they are energy wasters at best...

 

[Spoon]

Still not convinced that anyone needs 10 KW or more showers, they are energy wasters at best...

Its usually just cause the women want one and there is no talking them out of it. Usually best just to do it and have an easy life then get grief every time they have a shower.

 

[andyelectric]

Its usually just cause the women want one and there is no talking them out of it. Usually best just to do it and have an easy life then get grief every time they have a shower.

Spoon, you have it in a nutshell.

 

[Darkwood]

I think yer need to hold a pair of trousers up Andy and tell though lass who is supposed to wear them! :49:

 

[andyelectric]

I did say ''Invest''.... In the long run, gas is going to be a far better option than running two 10 KW showers. Still not convinced that anyone needs 10 KW or more showers, they are energy wasters at best...

I can' t be bothered to work out how many years the 'investment' would take to pay for itself. But I think I could safely hazard not within the expected lifespan of the new boiler. The one benefit of a crap electric shower is that you're in and out quite quickly.

 

[andyelectric]

I think yer need to hold a pair of trousers up Andy and tell though lass who is supposed to wear them! :49:

Lol. I save up all the little unimportant 'gives' and then put my foot down on the important stuff.

 

[Engineer54]

I can' t be bothered to work out how many years the 'investment' would take to pay for itself. But I think I could safely hazard not within the expected lifespan of the new boiler. The one benefit of a crap electric shower is that you're in and out quite quickly.

You obviously haven't had the pleasure of teenage daughters taking over the bathroom then, or you wouldn't be saying that!! lol!!

 

[andyelectric]

You obviously haven't had the pleasure of teenage daughters taking over the bathroom then, or you wouldn't be saying that!! lol!!

Indeed true!

 

[Octopus]

One word... Cost.

I am well agreed that electric showers are poor compared to gas powered off the boiler, but they suffice and an electric shower is much cheaper than a new gas boiler. 2 showers are required as the missus is fed up with baths(the lodger has the first shower in her en-suite). And since we are having a second not much difference between 8kw and 10kw but the missus wants 10.

My question was though.. Will the 60A fuse suffice considering it's very rare the showers will be run at the same time, and not are electric showers any good. I have decided anyway that as it's so easy to remove the 60a I will, and will be on an 80a after the shower install.

hum... changing the DNO fuse value?? Not sure you should be contemplating that!