DIYers/Builders...when will it end

[J&M Electrical]

How much longer are Builder and DIY'ers going to carry on 'de-valuing' our trade. It seems the more i read on here and the more i see out on site DIY electrics are getting more and more common. It winds me up that we go to college for 3/4 Years to get a qualification that enables us to work safely yet every Tom Dick and Harry can go into B&Q/Screwfix etc buy some cable and sockets, have a quick look at a diagram B&Q have kindly put up for them and then go home and bodge their electrics. The Gas lads seem to be starting to get it sorted but we haven't. Personally the only way i think this will stop is to give every qualified electrician a card similar to the Gas Safe card and make it law that electrical items can only be sold to people who hold this card. Am i on my own or do others feel the same? Sorry to rant but it makes my blood boil.

 

[alarm man]

Nothing like a spot of deceased equine flogging!

Computer software should only be sold to programmers, HMRC should only talk to accountants, an MOT test should only be carried out for a mechanic accompanying the car, food should only be prepared by people with a hygene certificate, asprin should only be prescribed by a doctor, etc etc etc.

Electricians or Orwellians?

I have seen some awful work by DIYers, but it's no worse than the awful work I have seen carried out by time served qualified electricians. It's the way the world is. You'll have to learn to accept it though, because you should only ever have one skill and do one job from leaving school. So you can't leave now.

you missed out the Electrical Trainee there too ...

 

[D80]

I don't think the likes of B&Q should be selling electrical products that need Part Pee notification (something non existent here, but they do it in England and Wales where Part Pee is in place). Nor should they offer "guidance". If you don't know how to wire 2 way lights or fit a consumer unit, then you shouldn't be bloody near it! And nor should this forum advise on that!

I find it crazy that its harder to get stuff from a food wholesalers as a Joe Bloggs than it is from an Electrical Wholesalers. Apart from the obvious issue that some Electrical Wholesalers employ idiots (which makes getting the right stuff bloody difficult) there are no checks in place to see who you are, whereas food wholesalers require quite a few bits of documentation to allow you to shop with them.

Walk into a food wholesalers as an unknown - not much chance of getting anything. Walk into an electrical wholesaler as an unknown, get what you want and probably some free advice to boot. Joke!

 

[Dave 85]

Nothing like a spot of deceased equine flogging!

Computer software should only be sold to programmers, HMRC should only talk to accountants, an MOT test should only be carried out for a mechanic accompanying the car, food should only be prepared by people with a hygene certificate, asprin should only be prescribed by a doctor, etc etc etc.

Electricians or Orwellians?

I have seen some awful work by DIYers, but it's no worse than the awful work I have seen carried out by time served qualified electricians. It's the way the world is. You'll have to learn to accept it though, because you should only ever have one skill and do one job from leaving school. So you can't leave now.

My sentiments exactly. Im gald to see im not the only person in the world still capable of rational thought.

Death to the effing nanny state. Ban the sale of sockets and cable to non electricians? why? apart from giving electricians more work what is this actually going to acheive for the wider world? Nothing.

You guys are really getting boring. DIY electrical work is really not the end of the world. Wake up!
There are lots of problems in this country at the moment, many of which are due to the nanny state, but thousands of people electrocuting themselves and burning their houses down through DIY electrical work is not one of them.
And this ones really gonna make me popular....
Its wiring not ******* brainsurgery!!!!

 

[alarm man]

Its wiring not ******* brainsurgery!!!!

get either wrong it ends up in death..

 

[Dave 85]

I don't think the likes of B&Q should be selling electrical products that need Part Pee notification (something non existent here, but they do it in England and Wales where Part Pee is in place). Nor should they offer "guidance". If you don't know how to wire 2 way lights or fit a consumer unit, then you shouldn't be bloody near it! And nor should this forum advise on that!

I find it crazy that its harder to get stuff from a food wholesalers as a Joe Bloggs than it is from an Electrical Wholesalers. Apart from the obvious issue that some Electrical Wholesalers employ idiots (which makes getting the right stuff bloody difficult) there are no checks in place to see who you are, whereas food wholesalers require quite a few bits of documentation to allow you to shop with them.

Walk into a food wholesalers as an unknown - not much chance of getting anything. Walk into an electrical wholesaler as an unknown, get what you want and probably some free advice to boot. Joke!

Thing is mate
DIY electrics, as in, buying a few sockets and doing electrical work in your home would be comparible to buying a few sausages from the supermarket and cooking them in your home. If you are at a food wholsaler, it is almost certainly not gonna be for personal use, whereas an elec wholesaler it could well be.
And if elec wholsalers started being gay about who they sell to, people would just buy stuff off the net, and the wholesalers will suffer.
It would be near impossible to blanket control the sale of elec goods

It will never ever ever happen.
Why?
Not enough people are dying.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Thing is mate
DIY electrics, as in, buying a few sockets and doing electrical work in your home would be comparible to buying a few sausages from the supermarket and cooking them in your home. If you are at a food wholsaler, it is almost certainly not gonna be for personal use, whereas an elec wholesaler it could well be.
And if elec wholsalers started being gay about who they sell to, people would just buy stuff off the net, and the wholesalers will suffer.
It would be near impossible to blanket control the sale of elec goods

It will never ever ever happen.
Why?
Not enough people are dying.

skip the sausage isle at the local supermarket.....various cable and electrical accessories etc grace the shelves there now.....

 

[Dave 85]

get either wrong it ends up in death..

Get brain surgery wrong its prolly 50/50 that the patient will come out alive without mental illness. Get electrics wrong: it wont work/the rcd will pop/the breaker will pop/it will be perfectly safe and work fine/absolutely minute chance that there will be a fire and somone will die.

I mean really....
If there are sooo many DIYers out there, what we talking? 1% of people are at it?
So thats about 600 000...
And how many are dying
Yeah thats right
Less than 30 (none of which are nessecarily caused by DIY work)
And my guess would be most fixed wiring electrical fires are caused by very very old wirng on very old fuseboards carried out by what are now very very old time served sparkies.

 

[alarm man]

Get brain surgery wrong its prolly 50/50 that the patient will come out alive without mental illness. Get electrics wrong: it wont work/the rcd will pop/the breaker will pop/it will be perfectly safe and work fine/absolutely minute chance that there will be a fire and somone will die.

did you learn that on week 1 or 5

 

[Dave 85]

did you learn that on week 1 or 5

Aren't you a clever boy
Learnt that one of yer idol E54 didn't yer?
When you are completely incapable of giving any reason or evidence to back up your arguments, you go back to your rather pathetic attempt to ridicule people by accusing them of doing a short trainig course. Classic E54.

Take it from me
the only person you are making look stupid is yourself.

 

[alarm man]

Aren't you a clever boy
Learnt that one of yer idol E54 didn't yer?
When you are completely incapable of giving any reason or evidence to back up your arguments, you go back to your rather pathetic attempt to ridicule people by accusing them of doing a short trainig course. Classic E54.

Take it from me
the only person you are making look stupid is yourself.

no comment,well until e54 comments then i'll just agree with me dad...

 

[Knobhead]

Walk into a food wholesalers as an unknown - not much chance of getting anything. Walk into an electrical wholesaler as an unknown, get what you want and probably some free advice to boot. Joke!

Good job I’ve got my public food hygiene and gas safe certificates.

 

[i=p/u]

soon as rcd hit the scenes , it started to go down hill, but do not rely on rcd as sole means of protection

 

[micknew]

All DIYers need to do is buy material from B&Q or an electrical wholesaler then ask questions on here.
Sparks on an ego trip will fall over themselves to answer their questions.

 

[piratebillybob]

B&Q need to give more advice and information not less.

the sale of electrical equipment to the public is never going to be "restricted" and there are always going to be "have a go" diy'ers who think they can do it.

So the best thing to do is to inform and educate without necessarily promoting.

All purchases of electrical equipment should be provided with information about the dangers of doing electrical diy, what they can and cant do as DIY. The legal implications and dangers if they go beyond their diy parameters

They should include simple "best practise guides" on electrical installation and some do's and donts.

Lights and sockets isnt rocket science. DIY electrics doesnt kill people, bad DIY electrics does.

And sure giving more information may deter some, encourage others but at least theyll (hopefully) be doing the job right when they do it.

 

[plugsandsparks]

What i say to my customers is " you have to be unlucky to die from an electric shock at 240V" its the fires that kill you.
What i have seen cause fires is equipment failing, getting very hot but the breakers still pumping juice into the load until it gets so hot it catches fire. Then eventually the wiring gets burned and the breaker pops but the fire is already going.
Thats why i am a big fan of RCDs, even though they are a pain, not because it reduces the chance of an electric shock but simply it should trip long before a fire is even brewing.
And guess what the number of times i come across breakers larger than the current carrying capacity of the cable and what the load needs is way too common and quite mis-understood in terms of what happens when the load is faulty.
Let B&Q sell RCDs and CUs, the more out there the better and i've just ordered a new swanky clamp meter for testing these beasts so more work for me.