DIYers/Builders...when will it end

[J&M Electrical]

How much longer are Builder and DIY'ers going to carry on 'de-valuing' our trade. It seems the more i read on here and the more i see out on site DIY electrics are getting more and more common. It winds me up that we go to college for 3/4 Years to get a qualification that enables us to work safely yet every Tom Dick and Harry can go into B&Q/Screwfix etc buy some cable and sockets, have a quick look at a diagram B&Q have kindly put up for them and then go home and bodge their electrics. The Gas lads seem to be starting to get it sorted but we haven't. Personally the only way i think this will stop is to give every qualified electrician a card similar to the Gas Safe card and make it law that electrical items can only be sold to people who hold this card. Am i on my own or do others feel the same? Sorry to rant but it makes my blood boil.

 

[Adam W]

Having said that I do still think wholesalers should sell to the trade cheaper than the sheds do to the general public, the same way as catering establishments buy food cheaper from cash & carry than the rest of us do from the supermarket.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Regarding likes of a CU - they should simply advise if you ain't a spark, you ain't getting it.

If you can't replace a socket or do likes of 2 way lighting without a guide - then you shouldn't be getting the accessories you need to do the task. Nowt to do with keeping sparks in work, they will obviously get the repair work that is obvious (if CPC etc has fallen out of back of socket, it may be too late then!).

If you are not a mechanic you cant buy car parts....if you are not a gas safe installer you cant buy copper pipe....if you are not a builder you cant buy bricks.....nanny state.
All you guys moaning about diy electrics would be the first to complain if you were prevented from buying any of the above. All it comes down to is a 'not in my back yard' attitude....What the hell does it matter to you if someone wants to do some DIY?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Never Ever going to happen...Thank god!!! You still can't see, that this type of stuff will eventually come round to bite you in the arse!!!

It's never been a problem in the past, so what's the big problem all of a sudden now?? Home owners DO NOT owe you as an electrician a living....

Best comment I've seen on this entire thread.

 

[ezzzekiel]

and what happens when scheme providers become the ones issuing the cards? at what additional costs and what about all the qualified electricians who arnt a member and can no longer buy materials

 

[oldtimer]

is their much work around edinburgh old timer, i moved there once , set two steps in the jobs centre and new was a waste of time.. very long waiting times to vacancy closes.. loda ......

it depends what you are targetting I do electrical and intruder alarm repairs modifications its a niche market but it works for me as I spoke to a mate who works with a kitchen fitter and as he said he is bashing walls where I am getting a cup o tea and some custard creams that I have to decline because my body is a temple but joking apart I fit in because there are a lot of young pro,s in the big city who want a couple of lights replaced or their immersion is stopped working and I turn up when it suits them ie 18:00 and they like to pay via internet banking and I dont mind as I used to be a shift worker so doing a job for a couple of hours a night or on a Saturday morning is no big deal. Also I am not VAT registered so again the big boys want £90 for the first 1/2 or hour then its a £130 bill plus VAT so it suits me and them and everybody is happy but if you are asking about hoose bashing or conduit bending well err no no thanks

 

[oldtimer]

Guys I have been thinking again and it struck me that it will not be the Schemies or the Government that sort this out it will be the insurance companies just like in the 80s in the USA when insurance companies were paying out large sums of money when people died in a fire and then the battery smoke alarm came out and the insurance companies found that it saved damage to property and life they started giving discounts to homeowners who fitted them plus if there was a fire it was caught early ie prevention .

So where does this leave us then well to it is all about risk and if the insurance companies see risk going up they will be the ones who drive electrical safety in the house and Government plus the Schemies will follow and do as they are told then they will tell you it was their idea in the first place

 

[Engineer54]

Guys I have been thinking again and it struck me that it will not be the Schemies or the Government that sort this out it will be the insurance companies just like in the 80s in the USA when insurance companies were paying out large sums of money when people died in a fire and then the battery smoke alarm came out and the insurance companies found that it saved damage to property and life they started giving discounts to homeowners who fitted them plus if there was a fire it was caught early ie prevention .

So where does this leave us then well to it is all about risk and if the insurance companies see risk going up they will be the ones who drive electrical safety in the house and Government plus the Schemies will follow and do as they are told then they will tell you it was their idea in the first place

The problem with this is, ...employing a scheme member is no guarantee whatsoever, to having a competent electrician conduct any electrical work...

PIR's (or whatever you call them now) are being conducted even today by such registered people on the drive-by basis. All an insurance company will or can ask for in reality, is a completed bit of paper. It'll not improve anything as far as i can presently see!!!

 

[malcolmsanford]

Get brain surgery wrong its prolly 50/50 that the patient will come out alive without mental illness. Get electrics wrong: it wont work/the rcd will pop/the breaker will pop/it will be perfectly safe and work fine/absolutely minute chance that there will be a fire and somone will die.

I mean really....
If there are sooo many DIYers out there, what we talking? 1% of people are at it?
So thats about 600 000...
And how many are dying
Yeah thats right
Less than 30 (none of which are nessecarily caused by DIY work)
And my guess would be most fixed wiring electrical fires are caused by very very old wirng on very old fuseboards carried out by what are now very very old time served sparkies.

Or me .........................I did my best honest

 

[imago]

Lets be honest, it's not a new 'problem' is it? DIY repairs I mean. Remember (if you're old enough) back in the '60s and '70s and the majority of blokes would happily carry out basic wiring tasks, mostly to a reasonable standard. Likewise with plumbing, building, car repairs, motorbike repairs etc etc. It's dropped off quite a bit in the last 20 - 30 years as people don't have the time, inclination, or basic hand skills.

I maintain my motorbikes and always have done. In the beginning it was simply what you did, then it saved money, and now I do it because I trust my own abilities and judgement more than some random stranger who has a certificate. Most of the bikes I've owned are capable of travelling well in excess of double the national speed limit. Whilst I don't tend to do that these days the speeds that I do go at and the weight of the bikes would cause mayhem if something went west.

So thank heavens for the knowledgeable, skilled, and willing amateur. And thank heavens for the outlets that sell all manner of 'should only be for the trade' parts and equipment.

You will also notice if you read back through this thread that there are a number of 'professionals' who refer to Part P of the building regulations as a legal requirement. Oh the irony of the keen amateur who sees it simply as a regulation, and the professional who refers to it as a law.

The simple fact of the matter is that, as it has always been, if you are good at your job, keen to learn, and treat the customer properly you will do OK. If you run around wailing and gnashing your teeth about how hard it all is now, someone who's been around a bit longer will point out that it's a bloody site easier now than before.

 

[oldtimer]

Also it is easy far an individual to get a bit pompous not through malice but more like wanting to do the right thing as I have said before we cannot be the worlds electrical safety police because thats not our job. I would also point out that just like a religous convert someone who has converted into the trade ie not time served can tend to take it on with zeal and ok yes they want to do a good job but as we know the more you push the more you switch off the customer

 

[Dave 85]

Wow I just set a new personal record for most likes given in 2 mins.
Good to see the (previous) government campaign of suppressing common sense in the general public hasn't been entirly successful.

 

[prospark]

agree entirely, sparkies never be fully appreciated until the diy "sheds" stop doing how to guides!!!! and also stop these so called Part P courses as well. increasing number of young lads going to college to become a spark(nice to see),passing the course but with no real experience(sad really) as there has definately been a generation gap since i started.As we all know no substitute for experience,i'm still learning everyday after 26+ years at it.

 

[Golden_Boy]

agree entirely, sparkies never be fully appreciated until the diy "sheds" stop doing how to guides!!!! and also stop these so called Part P courses as well. increasing number of young lads going to college to become a spark(nice to see),passing the course but with no real experience(sad really) as there has definately been a generation gap since i started.As we all know no substitute for experience,i'm still learning everyday after 26+ years at it.

If that ever does happen whats to stop a DIYer from looking up the 17th or Part Pee or many of the other installation guides available on the net. Its not rocket science for goodness sake its bits of cable and a few accesories.

 

[Guest111]

correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall that Wickes were stopped from producing" how to" leaflets on electrics a few years ago after concerns where raised by somebody, niceic or someone like that.at the end of the day if people are going to do sparking at home then they are going to do it,what worries me at times is the advice given by so called in store experts,in your favourite diy store I once heard an "expert" advise a customer who wished to extend his cable on his new water feature that a Duraplug 3 pin connector was the perfect thing for joining flexes outdoors!I also heard one plumbing expert advise on how to connect a gas cooker,and at no point did he mention doing a gas soundness test before and after carrying out the work.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

correct me if I am wrong but I seem to recall that Wickes were stopped from producing" how to" leaflets on electrics a few years ago after concerns where raised by somebody, niceic or someone like that.at the end of the day if people are going to do sparking at home then they are going to do it,what worries me at times is the advice given by so called in store experts,in your favourite diy store I once heard an "expert" advise a customer who wished to extend his cable on his new water feature that a Duraplug 3 pin connector was the perfect thing for joining flexes outdoors!I also heard one plumbing expert advise on how to connect a gas cooker,and at no point did he mention doing a gas soundness test before and after carrying out the work.

"somebody...NIC or someone like that".....so that would be the other scheme providers then.....