Do electricians actually need to have the 17th Edition?

[John Lundrigan]

Hi All,
Just recently I have had my interest in electrical work re-awakened because I have a grandson halfway through his apprenticeship and I asked me for help.

The electrical technology was OK as very little of that has changed, but BS 7671 was new to me and so I got stuck into it. I developed some web based resources to assist me grandson and I felt I could make these available to others.

The problem for is that I am unsure of the real need for electricians to actually have BS 7671! It appears from other forums that electricians can work without actually having it. It seems that it is simply an advantage when looking for contracts. This seemed to be confirmed by the existence of Domestic Installer Schemes.

I would be grateful to any forum members who can clear up my confusion.

Thanks

Jonel

 

[John Lundrigan]

Thank you. I'm not doubting you in least (I'm probably the least knowledgeable in the forum). It's just that the documentation for either of these two organisations makes no mention of such a requirement.

On my website I was hoping to say something regarding the 'essential requirement for qualifying in the 17th Edition' but I have been unable to refer to any documentation from any organisation such a NICEIC or JIB that states this requirement (both ask me to have a copy).

Can anybody point me to this please. I'm not arguing, I simply don't want to make a statement that comes back to me as 'untrue' from a reader.

Jonel

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Use this link, scroll down to where it says apply, and read the text just above. It’s the same as I posted above in post #12.
ECS Card Types | ECS Installation Electrician | ECS Gold Card - https://www.ecscard.org.uk/Card-Types/Core-–-Electrical/ECS-Installation-Electrician

 

[Royal Docks Electrical]

I believe the 18th is coming out soon, so another day off for everyone unpaid and more costs for the overworked boys out there.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have discussed with the NICEIC in the past why the 2382 should be required for Electricians who qualified to the 17th edition.
They never really explained, other to say it’s required.
That was some time ago, so they could have changed their requirements.
It could also be the case with the JIB, that the 2382 is not required in such circumstances?

 

[John Lundrigan]

Thank you very much for pointing me to the ECS Card. You correctly illustrate that it does require a qualification in BS 7671.

This is very useful to me but it doesn't get me anywhere with my initial problem because, the way I see it, the ECS card is a sort of equivalent to the JIB card.

And while both will be good for getting work with an employer, that is the best I can say about the cards to my readers. Neither are really essential, especially if I worked for myself.

I can see the ECS card being very attractive to an employer because of it's range of requirements.

Jonel

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It’s not equivalent, it’s the same thing.

 

[John Lundrigan]

Thank you. Now you can see what you are dealing with! I'm getting a good picture now though.

Jonel

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The JIB/ECS card is one single card.
There is not a JIB card and an ECS card.
My brother passed his 2391 qualification just before the 17th edition was introduced.
Because the date on his Certificate was after the introduction of the 17th, the JIB assumed he had obtained his 2391 while the 17th was in force.
They showed on his card that not only did he have the 2391 but also the 2382.
My brother has never obtained the 2382.

So it is possible that the 2382 is not required, as long as the core electrical qualifications are obtained while the 17th edition is in force.
However in the not very far future the 18th will be required.

 

[John Lundrigan]

Thanks to all who replied. I think I have the picture now.

Jonel

 

[Midwest]

Ditto for me, I re-registered with the JIB in July 2011, using my previous registration with them in the 1980's. I did not have to show them any evidence of qualification, they had those on record, apparently. Took my 2382 in December 2012. Of course I had to do the HS test for the JIB, before they'd issue me a card.

My latest card expired July this year, and as I work for myself and unlikely to work for any companies in the foreseeable future, won't be bothering to renew.

 

[Octopus]

So along with competence and a good working knowledge of BS 7671, do you have PL insurance, and a tester which has recently been calibrated.

Out of interest why does your grandson need your help? Surely his employer should be doing this?

 

[paul291277]

Thank you very much for pointing me to the ECS Card. You correctly illustrate that it does require a qualification in BS 7671.

The JIB/ECS card is one single card.
There is not a JIB card and an ECS card.

I got my ECS (Electrical Labourer) card with just my lvl2 C&G2365

ECS cards are provided by the JIB

 

[HandySparks]

So along with competence and a good working knowledge of BS 7671, do you have PL insurance, and a tester which has recently been calibrated.

I don't think that the OP is planning to become a practising electrician.

 

[Simonslimline]

You cannot obtain a JIB card without the 2382 and from past discussions with the NICEIC, they also require it.

I just spoke with the JIB over the phone and I was advised that you only need to hold the 2382 for the "registered electricians scheme".

You don't need the 2382 to obtain a Gold card unless you opt for the above scheme.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I can’t remember how many times I have renewed my card, but I do recall having to take the 16th edition after the 2004 harmonised colours update, and then the 17th after that was introduced.