Do electricians actually need to have the 17th Edition?

[John Lundrigan]

Hi All,
Just recently I have had my interest in electrical work re-awakened because I have a grandson halfway through his apprenticeship and I asked me for help.

The electrical technology was OK as very little of that has changed, but BS 7671 was new to me and so I got stuck into it. I developed some web based resources to assist me grandson and I felt I could make these available to others.

The problem for is that I am unsure of the real need for electricians to actually have BS 7671! It appears from other forums that electricians can work without actually having it. It seems that it is simply an advantage when looking for contracts. This seemed to be confirmed by the existence of Domestic Installer Schemes.

I would be grateful to any forum members who can clear up my confusion.

Thanks

Jonel

 

[Simonslimline]

I just spoke with the JIB over the phone and I was advised that you only need to hold the 2382 for the "registered electricians scheme".

You don't need the 2382 to obtain a Gold card unless you opt for the above scheme.

What do you disagree with?

I am applying for my gold card now with the following

Level 3 tech cert.
AM2
NVQ3
2394/5

I asked do I need the 2382, the reply was, no, you only need the 2382 for the registered electricians scheme.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

When did you pass your 2394/5?

 

[Simonslimline]

When did you pass your 2394/5?

oct 2015

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So you passed your core qualifications while the 17th was in force.
If you had passed during the 15th or 16th, you would need the 2382.
Once the 18th edition is introduced, you will need that to renew.
Why you should need the 2382 to join the registered electrician scheme is a mystery.

 

[Simonslimline]

So you passed your core qualifications while the 17th was in force.
If you had passed during the 15th or 16th, you would need the 2382.
Once the 18th edition is introduced, you will need that to renew.
Why you should need the 2382 to join the registered electrician scheme is a mystery.

That is just what the jib told me. The "registered electrician" thing is something new from the JIB as far as i understand.

 

[Dave Rudderham]

There appears a massive mess of qualifications that are designed to confuse both the knowledgeable and the unknowing. I queried a job that was advertised on Indeed website last year. All they required you to have was "17th Edition"
No tech qualifications mentioned, I e-mailed as I was bored at the time and was told they didn't require any tech qualifications, just "17th Edition" exam....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

What would you be graded as?

 

[Simonslimline]

A jib Technician graded guy I work with told me he has renewed his card about 10 times and never needed to do the 2382 in order to do so!

 

[Dave Rudderham]

What would you be graded as?

if you mean me from my post, definitely unknowing but learning. If you didn't mean me from my post then feel free to disregard lol

 

[einstein]

17th edition, i thought you had to have this for a gold card?

cant wait for 18th

 

[lemonkettaz]

I can’t get ecs card because I don’t have Am2 and nvq level 3

I have 2330 level 2 and level 3, 17th edition 2382 and 2394 inspection testing. Got a few years experience now too but because I’m in RE I can never get assessed where we work as it’s world wide

But ecs don’t think it’s good enough.

 

[paul291277]

I can’t get ecs card because I don’t have Am2 and nvq level 3

I have 2330 level 2 and level 3, 17th edition 2382 and 2394 inspection testing. Got a few years experience now too but because I’m in RE I can never get assessed where we work as it’s world wide

But ecs don’t think it’s good enough.

You're more qualified than me as I haven't done the 2394 but got my ECS card with just the lvl2; you'd need Am2 and nvq level 3 on top of your current qualifications to get the JIB Gold Card. Not to be confused with a standard ECS card which is basically an electrotechnical version of the CSCS card

 

[lemonkettaz]

It’s the grading that I don’t get I’ve been informed I would only qualify as a trainee but need to be registered to be on my way to do nvq 3,

I’ll be looking into again Easter next time back in the uk as planning on doing an am2 just to get it out the way. But as for nvq , no chance I’ll get that til I leave my current work and get permanent construction work based in uk only.

 

[paul291277]

It’s the grading that I don’t get

I don't think anyone gets it; whether it's electricians, the people that employ them, or the people that issue these qualifications/requirements

 

[I2C]

There are a few things to consider if you don't have a current version of BS7671 with the relevant guidance notes and building regulations relevant to your work.

If Things go Wrong:
If you did some work resulting in a fire/electrocution and you where sent to court on trial, you'd need to prove you are competent and did everything reasonably possible. The courts will always refer to BS7671 and it's relevant guidance-notes. "Do you own a copy? " and if not "how can you be sure your work was compliant?" and if it's not compliant "why was it not in compliance, was it a calculated deviation from regulations or negligence?" - this wouldn't end well.

Deviations from Regulations:
Some highly-educated and experienced designers will occasionally deviate from the regulations during their design, albeit with good reasons. They would make sure to document these deviations with extensive calculations and considerations for safety. This is outside of the scope of most electricians (including myself) because if something where to happen, you'd need to explain why you deviated from the regulations and what makes you competent in such a decision (I don't have a degree, or decades of design experience) so it's not normally worth it.

Notifiable Work:
If you're a member of a competency scheme, they may insist you own a current version of BS7671 (plus relevant guidance notes, OSG, Building Regulations, etc - which they will test you're knowledge and check previous work you've done). They may also insist you follow the regulations in order for them to allow you to self-certify you're work.
Alternatively if you use a building inspector, they will be following the guidance of BS7671 themselves to check your work and may not agree with any alterations.

To summarise, you don't (technically) need BS7671, nor do you need to follow it's advice. But if you don't, make sure you are competent to make that decision and have a complete-knowledge of what it says, and document why with great detail.