Do I need a separate Kitchen Ring Main ?

[steve99]

Hi,

A kitchen fitter has just told me that I require a separate ring main for my kitchen that they can do when fitting the new kitchen.

Currently all kitchen sockets are on the downstairs ring main and we will be keeping the gas cooker(no increase in load).

All they will do is fit a new cooker hood and perhaps take out/put back existing sockets to tile around.

Is he correct ??

TIA

Steve

 

[roukel01]

There is no requirement that the kitchen requires a new ring, especially if its already in place. If, however they start adding extra sockets etc then it will need to be RCD protected, your earthing will have to be up to scratch and they'll need to register the extra work.
Obviously if they've tested the current installation and they deem it unsafe or unsatisfactory then youmay require a new circuit, however, it seems to me they are after extra work!

 

[steve99]

They didn't test and we have an RCD fitted already.

Told me that it was a 'regulation' and would have to be done. They would only charge me £170 whereas if I got an electrician in myself it would be around £500.

 

[roukel01]

tell em to go jump and and stick to joinery

 

[Sintra]

They didn't test and we have an RCD fitted already.

Told me that it was a 'regulation' and would have to be done. They would only charge me £170 whereas if I got an electrician in myself it would be around £500.

Ask them to quote you the regulation number or show it to you in BS 7671.

Sounds like they are chancing it.

 

[billybob]

you don't need a seperate circuit for kitchens,although it can be advantageous.
you could add to the exhisting circuit no problems,as long as it is in good condition.
ensure you recieve certification,and that the fitters are notifying building control on your behalf.
also check the water and gas services are earthed at the points of entry to the building.

 

[Yooj]

...and that the fitters are notifying building control on your behalf.
also check the water and gas services are earthed at the points of entry to the building.

Yes, good point...ask the kitchen fitters how they intend to comply wiith Part P of the bulding regulations, i.e. are they part of a 'Competent Persons Scheme', and if so then ask for their registration details, and if not, then they will have to notify Building Control BEFORE the commencement of work. (This is of course assuming that you don't already have a Building Control Notice already active for the work you are having done.

As a final point...all additions/modifications to electrical circuits, however small in a kitchen are notifiable, either by the Part P scheme member, or to Building Control via a BCN.

Yooj

PS...They are definately trying it on.

 

[steve99]

It's just a really simple job of replacing kitchen units. Same appliances - no extra sockets or moving anything electrical. Possibly just wiring in a new cooker hood.

I'm having a similar discussion with them about a gas hob and regulations regarding wall units that are fitted near the hob.

A simple job(or so I thought) is now turning out to be a minefield of regulations. Some of these are open to interpretation(gas) and I don't really trust these guys to be completely honest.

I will be looking elsewhere.

 

[roukel01]

if you haven't coughed up any money, find another fitter!!

Otherwise, keep us posted what happens!

 

[Yooj]

For the hood, will they need to add any socket/spur outlet to the fixed wiring...if so, then it is a notifiable job as mentioned before.

What are they saying with regards to the wall units?

Yooj

 

[Guest123]

Listen before you go out and set fire to the kitchen fitter just have a chat with him, play dumb and ask if he can show you the reg in the book and what scheme he is a member of.

 

[steve99]

They told me that you have to leave a 50mm gap either side of a gas hob before having any wall units fitted. This might actually be true but I have tried to verify it.

After some calls I ended up emailing BSI. This is their reply re BS 6172:2004 -

Thank you for your email. This document does contain a diagram which covers these measurements but I am unable to provide sections of the standard out of context of the whole document or interpret what they might mean. Unfortunately we don't have technical experts in the building able to advise on these issues, the committee members that create the standards are representatives of trade associations and professional bodies and do not work for BSI.

Many public libraries have either online or print access to collections of British standards so you can view the document yourself.

I'm not sure what new guidance you are referring to as this standard was issued in 2004 and amended in 2006 but has not been changed since then.
Please be aware that British Standards are published for voluntary use. Whilst these might support UK legislation and regulation, they have in themselves no regulatory status. Therefore the application of a standard is a contractual matter between the parties concerned, unless mandated by national or European regulation. You would need to agree on your understanding and use of the standard in discussion with the other parties involved, and in light of any relevant legislation.

Kind regards

Very confusing.

 

[markhtly]

Surely the only standards that apply to wall units and gas hobs are the 'height above' that the unit goes and not 50mm spacings either side?

Unless they mean the hob is 500mm in measurement and fitted into a 600mm base unit,thus giving 50mm either side? I've certainly never seen a top box or a cooker hood with 50mm fillers either side,then again I weren't really looking

Or am I not getting it

 

[Yooj]

Probably likely that the fitter is just saying what he thinks is true, without the underpinning knowledge to know whether it is actually true or not.

In terms of the oven/cabinet install...the only things i recall when I had my oven/hob installed was that there was a minimum height for a hood...650mm, and any wall units without a direct overhang over the hob had to be a minimum of 450mm from the hob...The only other thing that was stipulated that the hob had to be higher that the adjacent work surfaces, otherwise there had to be a gap and the work surface/base unit side materials had to withstand 90 degree C.

If you know the make/model of the oven, then get a copy of the installation guides for it, as it should be stipulated in there.

Yooj

 

[steve99]

Well he was adamant that unless there was a gap of 50mm either side of the 70cms De Deitrich hob he woudl not touch the whole job. That's what his Gas Safe engineer stipulates.

The installation manual instructions would be overuled by the BS - that's why I have tried to get hold of them.

Is there a similar gas forum to this one where I could post this question ?

All of you guys have been very helpful - many thanks.

Does anyone live near HA5 if I need some work doing ?

Steve