Do i really need the NVQ3

[jones.emyr]

Hi all,
Right I`ve passed my 2330, level 2 & 3. Passed my 17th edition, all with a generic course provider. What is the next step in my progression. Is it the 2391 inspection and testing one (I`m not sure which is the really tough one, the 2391 or 2392). Its my thinking that once I`ve done this I can sign off my own work, and register with elecsa or niceic. Do I therefore need the NVQ 3? Do i need it to register with any of the aforementioed companies. An extra of my course is a Part P exam. Is this required to join an organisation?
Any advice would be greatfully received.
Cheers

 

[ebow72]

DO you know I am not right sure either with this. I have just finished my 2330/2357 and I am awaiting a placement to complete my NVQ3 and then scheduled to do the AM2 in November. I think it might have more to do with JIB grading than actual competence, but could be wrong. I am sure someone on here will know more than us.
But I can tell you Part P isn't an exam, it's a competence persons scheme,there is no actual qual involved with this.
You pay, you are assessed and you are legally allowed to undertake notifiable work as per LABC.
Building Regulations - IET Electrical bit of impartial info here
Again another mixed bag this Part P, again someone will probably give you more info...

 

[jones.emyr]

After having a look on other threads, it seems like my next step is the 2392 followed by the 2391 (if they are still being run). I gather the 2392 allows me to sign off my own work, whilst the 2391 allows me to sign off the work of others, and deals with 3 phase.
I have to say, the Part P exam I have coming up is a gola one run by city and guilds, so now I`m even more confused!! What is this AM2 i see so many people talking about?

 

[Richard Burns]

You seem to be mixing up the requirements a bit.
The regulatory requirement for you to design, install and inspect and test electrical work is that you are competent. There is no specific requirement for any exam or training course; that said you would have to demonstrate competence if required (say in a court of law) and then this is where having qualifications would help.
It is also possible to become competent through say years of on site training with out taking exams but would be difficult to prove.

To join a self certification scheme to allow you to self notify your installs under the building regulations you generally (though check the schemes website for specific details) can join if you have passed the 17th edition (C&G 2382), though they will be (somewhat) assessing your competence on your demonstration jobs, so you would still need to be competent and know about the building regulations.

To be able to get employment as an electrician (as opposed to working for yourself) you would normally need to have 2330 2+3 and NVQ3 and AM2 as well as the 17th edition, I believe that this level would also allow you to obtain a JIB card as an electrician, which will be required for employment in many cases. Though again the qualifications are changing to the 2357 that includes the AM2.

The 2392 is inspection and testing for initial verification and is a low grade qualification not usually recognised by employers.
The 2391 is inspection and testing for new and existing installations and is a more in depth qualification, more generally recognised by employers, only touches on 3 phase.

The qualifications are again in the process of changing and soon the 2394 will be for initial verification and the 2395 will be for periodic inspections.

The 2393 is the building regulations qualification from C&G and is just another qualification to add to the stack. Not strictly necessary but would help in gaining the knowledge that you need about the building regulations as they relate to electrical installations. This is not a Part P exam, but it does cover the things you would need to know to comply with Part P of the building regulations.

This link tells you about the AM2.

Hope this helps. (I also hope it is right!)

 

[timo1]

If its a domestic installer scheme you are looking for then all they require is the 17th edition (C&G 2382) and two examples of installation, most do their own consumer unit, and a further minor bit of work i.e a spur.

Someone from one of the scheme providers will come and visit you for a day/half day and want to see your paperwork ask questions on testing etc.

There are loads of posts re this, you can be up and earning quite quickly. I am doing the NVQ3 for my JIB card so hopefully it will help me travel. All the best. Tim

 

[telectrix]

i think richard burns has said it all, really. all i can add is that if you are going to work for yourself, forget nvq and am2, join elecsa ( or 1 of the others) and crack on. obtaing 2391 ( or the replacement for it ) would be advantageous to go for, but not immediately essential.

 

[jones.emyr]

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. So many paths on the road to becoming an electrician, but no signposts. Currently I dont think I`m brave enough to venture out on my own, and whilst I`m pretty confident i could do a full domestic rewire, I wouldnt know where to start pricing up a job. I`d like to just get a job with a company, but more often than not when a job does come up, it always says '2391 desirable but not essential' so I`m guessing I go straight out the running.
Also from the replies I take it I could join Elecsa even at this point so long as I show that I`m competent? How much does this cost and if I joined, would it make me more employable to a company or is it just if I was going it on my own?
Again, all advice would be greatfully received. Cheers.

 

[telectrix]

you would only join elecsa or 1 of the others if you were to go self-employed , running your own business. cost is around £400 per year. don't be afraid to go for jobs where 2391 is desireable. you can do the course evenings at a local college. any employer should be happy for to to do this once he takes you on.

 

[Toby Kuhnert]

I just spoke to Elecsa, they said the requirements for registration are changing from April 2013. From then you will have to have the NVQ L3. At the moment it is only the 17th edition. Any renewals after that date won't be affected by the new requirement though.

 

[rugbynick]

cannot be fully qualified as a new electrician without NVQ 3 and AM2 these days.

 

[Phil.AVQ]

Hi, I 'm a new member I have a lot of experience with the Electrical NVQ Level 3.

The current 2356 NVQ is due to expire on 31/7/12. As from 1.8.12 The 2357 will only be available, however, if you wish to register for the NVQ after 1/8/12 you will have to attend college to gain an additional unit covering environmental studies (sustainable energy supplies etc.), this will bring the 2330 tech certifcate in line with the 2357 tech. cert version.

The 2357 AM2 will be mandatory, where as it is is possible at the moment (dependant on experience /age etc.) obtain a 2356 NVQ without an AM2 as this is usually used with apprentices on government funded apprenticeships along with key skills to level 2.

It is worth remembering that if a 2356 is required, The candidiate would have to be registered by 31/7/12, The final date that the certificate can be issed for this qualification is 31/7/15.

Whilst it is advisable to complete the AM2 even if it is for self satisfaction it is not compulsory for this award.

It might be worth reminding friends and colleagues of this.

If you need any further advice or have questions , please post and I will do my best to answer them or point anyone in the right direction, Phil.

 

[gigawatt]

can't you get by with just the AM2 for JIB?

 

[sparksflying]

can't you get by with just the AM2 for JIB?

JIB will only give "provisional" grading if you have AM2 and no NVQ, see link for details Joint Industry Board

 

[yamar1]

can't you get by with just the AM2 for JIB?

No, but you can do the NVQ and not do the AM2 if you are an adult learner in the trade.

 

[Phil.AVQ]

can't you get by with just the AM2 for JIB?

Well there lies a tale!

The generally accepted principle is no you can't. The reason being that the NVQ is composed of the Technical Certificate (236, 2330, 2351, etc.), a site diary and not necessarily the AM2 in the 2356 scheme.

Grading may well be denied without a technical certifciate as grading without the tech. cert was known as "grandfathers rights" (I have it on very good authority having spoken to a City and Guilds EV last week about this), This is no longer an available route to go down , even for those with a vast amount of experience.

An NVQ could possibly be granted if an alternative method of evidence was included to establish knowledge covering say the electrical science units of the college syllabus. This would have to be agreed by the C&G EV prior to allowing this to happen.

(They don't all think along the same lines all the time, as with many things it is an opinion they are offering whilst representing an awarding body)

The problem lies in that when grading is applied for, you don't just have to send off your NVQ L3 cert. the JIB ask for copies of all the relelvent componants of the NVQ (tech cert L3, may be AM2) this is to establish that the NVQ has been awarded with the correct bits in place and thus suitable technical knowledge has been absorbed having passed an exam.

I hope this helps,