"Domestic installer " due to be binned?

[LukeD]

heard that the powers that be want the "domestic installers" course binned?

 

[nicebutdim]

NO there is a Trade that aint earning what they use to !

I'm not sure that I follow your thinking on this.

DI's are exceptionally limited in the work they can undertake, unless they use that course as a stepping stone to a significant amount of further training. Even accounting for the work they can carry out, I don't imagine that many of them paid thousands of pounds just to go out and work for peanuts.

There's no doubting the fact that many electricians earn much less than they ideally should, but I don't think DI's are to blame for that. Do you believe that electricians were rolling in cash before the Domestic Installer title was created?

 

[dodger421]

Whatever happens it would be great if all of the nations could come up with a better way of getting into the industry for those of us who're too old and have too many bills to pay to afford apprenticeship wages.

As @ipf mentioned the DI scheme was, and currently still is, an attractive resettlement course for many folks leaving the armed forces, it was run as a 3 or 5 week course titled "NAPIT full scope domestic electrician" or something very like that. A number of my ex-colleagues have done it with varying degrees of business success and it was a course I considered but rejected as I was moving back to Scotland where the qualifications mean effectively diddly squat to SELECT/SJIB when it comes to registering as an electrician.

So yeah, a better way of recognising prior learning for those of us with a lot of electrical/electronics experience and a more coherent approach from all of the industry bodies would be nice, but that's a wishlist I never expect to see happen.

 

[dodger421]

I suspect that was aimed at the armed forces. Effectively taking a pay cut in real terms for 8 years whilst being asked to do more with less resources, just like all the other public sector workers.

This is neither the time nor the place for that debate though.

 

[nicebutdim]

I suspect that was aimed at the armed forces. Effectively taking a pay cut in real terms for 8 years whilst being asked to do more with less resources, just like all the other public sector workers.

This is neither the time nor the place for that debate though.

It seems I may have been misled by a typo...

 

[LukeD]

should have read "Now" there is a trade ... Private security/merc work is paying peanuts these days . Unless you are linked into major companies /teams . Base security teams in iraq etc could earn a good wage.Now i heard it Indians etc on $50 a day !

 

[nicebutdim]

should have read "Now" there is a trade ... Private security/merc work is paying peanuts these days . Unless you are linked into major companies /teams . Base security teams in iraq etc could earn a good wage.Now i heard it Indians etc on $50 a day !

Amazing how one letter can make such a difference ?

 

[telectrix]

just waiting for my bank to make a typo. a missed zero on my overdraft would be useful.

 

[dodger421]

just waiting for my bank to make a typo. a missed zero on my overdraft would be useful.

Or not if it’s in their favour

 

[rapparee]

should have read "Now" there is a trade ... Private security/merc work is paying peanuts these days . Unless you are linked into major companies /teams . Base security teams in iraq etc could earn a good wage.Now i heard it Indians etc on $50 a day !

You can do alright with the Wagner Group ?

 

[Rockingit]

I got an offer years back to be an electrical civvy on the Iraq and Afghan camps, some serious wedge at the time and I was very tempted until I'd deliberated for so long I got beaten to the news I was going to be a daddy, at which point all bets were off. Give it another ten years and I could consider the Antarctic research station for six months, though.

 

[Pete999]

I got an offer years back to be an electrical civvy on the Iraq and Afghan camps, some serious wedge at the time and I was very tempted until I'd deliberated for so long I got beaten to the news I was going to be a daddy, at which point all bets were off. Give it another ten years and I could consider the Antarctic research station for six months, though.

I did 12 month on top of Mt Olympus in Cyprus, not nice as it sounds, and if you have a young family it's hard to take any lengthy times away from your loved ones, think long and hard before you commit Mate, it ain't all roses believe me.

 

[ruston]

I did 12 month on top of Mt Olympus in Cyprus, not nice as it sounds, and if you have a young family it's hard to take any lengthy times away from your loved ones, think long and hard before you commit Mate, it ain't all roses believe me.

Absolutely spot on.

 

[UNG]

Whatever happens it would be great if all of the nations could come up with a better way of getting into the industry for those of us who're too old and have too many bills to pay to afford apprenticeship wages.

If an industry sets a level of standards why should that industry be expected to dilute the level of those standards to allow people entry into that industry that don't have the time, can't afford the lower earnings while learning and all the other excuses that are used to gain a fast track into the industry

As @ipf mentioned the DI scheme was, and currently still is, an attractive resettlement course for many folks leaving the armed forces, it was run as a 3 or 5 week course titled "NAPIT full scope domestic electrician" or something very like that. A number of my ex-colleagues have done it with varying degrees of business success and it was a course I considered but rejected as I was moving back to Scotland where the qualifications mean effectively diddly squat to SELECT/SJIB when it comes to registering as an electrician.

NAPIT originally set out to maintain standards in inspection and testing and now they are like the rest whatever you want to call it the domestic "electrician" / "installer" once the domestic and installer is dropped it all ends up as I'm an electrician which is misleading, I've lost count of the number of times when talking to these "electricians" how often I hear I don't understand 3 phase.
It annoys me that the industry feels the need to divide itself up into domestic, commercial and industrial to the point that is an electrician really an electrician anymore with the all encompassing skills that were taught in the past in an industry that is getting evermore complicated.
There has always been a divide in the industry with electricians who were happier as installation electricians and those who would also tackle faultfinding and the more technical tasks this was generally recognised with the JIB grading system

So yeah, a better way of recognising prior learning for those of us with a lot of electrical/electronics experience and a more coherent approach from all of the industry bodies would be nice, but that's a wishlist I never expect to see happen.

I was talking to a butcher a few weeks ago that was thinking of retraining as a veterinary surgeon as he felt he had transferable skills??
All joking aside would there be a problem if these assumed transferable skills were put to a written exam or a practical test rather than the standardised assessment that most seem to want

Although they were much maligned in the 80's the skillcentres with their 6 month courses turned out some good installation electricians that could work in most of the industries sectors, when they finished the course they were not the finished electrician and still had a lot to learn and skills to hone but they had a good base to work up from

 

[dodger421]

I’m very much not arguing or asking that the standards be diluted, nor am I looking for a “fast track” into the industry. What I would like is recognition of the equivalence of the training and experience I already have and a way to simply top that up rather than starting from scratch at the very bottom of a ladder I’d already been most of the way up. I’m sorry that having pursued a parallel career path for a decade sounds like an excuse.

An example being 3 phase. I learned the theory and the practical of motors, generators, distribution and all the rest to the same depth as the Level 3 2365 course but my courses had a different module number so aren’t recognised. A test that gets me to prove that I have retained that knowledge would suffice, rather than making me go back to college just to get the correct number on a certificate.

Since leaving I’ve primarily worked on 3 phase equipment and distribution boards. I’ve learnt how to properly terminate and gland SWA and SY, as well as seeing how not to do it. I’ve designed, installed and tested new circuits for both the plant floor and the various offices. I’ve actually done inspection, testing and certifying of my work, with a calibrated MFT and everything, which is more than I can say of the two main electrical contractors my employer uses. Both l of them are SELECT and NICEIC registered companies with graded electricians whose work has repeatedly been found to not meet the wiring regs, and I’ve not yet seen them break any test equipment out after running in entire new panels or LV distribution circuits.

None of that actually counts for anything in Scotland it seems, although there is the mature candidate assessment route in England the Scottish equivalent is given only a brief mention by SJIB and I’ve struggled to find any mention of the required courses other than having to complete a FICA assessment (which I’m confident I’d pass from what I’ve read
about it).

 

[Rockingit]

I did 12 month on top of Mt Olympus in Cyprus, not nice as it sounds, and if you have a young family it's hard to take any lengthy times away from your loved ones, think long and hard before you commit Mate, it ain't all roses believe me.

Appreciate the thoughts. Like I say, in another ten years - maybe. I'll be too fooked physically by then to still be touring but not quite old enough to sell up and buy a boat in warm seas. And.... I'm used to being away from the family although only normally for 5-6-7 week kind of stints.