Domestic Installers Course - Ummmm!!

[bobit200]

I know this question has probably been asked a dozen times, just need some clarification on a few things. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just been made redundant. Been thinking of doing a Domestic Installer Course for several years as I wish to pursue new work avenues. My idea was to take one of the many available courses so I could become a Domestic Installer and get approved by one of the bodies so I can sign off my own work. I would eventually like to go down the Solar PV route having a specific interest in the area. If I go ahead, pass the course and become approved would I be OK to just go out there and work on a self-employed basis doing general domestic electrical work in my local area? I hear the market is a bit saturated at the moment (is this true?) so the likely hood is I will have to do something else as well?
I was thinking of doing the 18 day domestic course at tradeskills4u this will give me the following quals:-

City & Guilds 4141-01 - Electrical Installation Work within a Domestic Dwelling

City & Guilds 2393 – Part P Building Regulations

City & guilds 2392-10 – Inspection & Testing Course

City & Guilds 2382-12 – 17th Edition Wiring Regulations (Including latest amendments)

Would this be a good starting point to become a domestic installer and does anyone have any experience with tradeskills4u? Apart from OLCI, who seem expensive and very pushy are they any other training centres in and around the Leeds, Manchester areas people would recommend?

Also, I hear that the government is about to completely change these courses, increasing the time period to 8 weeks training. Is this true and how will it affect those individuals who have passed the course but not yet approved?

Thanks.

 

[Richard Burns]

It is generally considered that doing the domestic installer course will not provide you with enough knowledge or experience to be able to safely and correctly undertake electrical work. However this is not the view of the self certification schemes that do permit this route.
You would not be able to do any site work with those qualifications.
A better route is to take something like the C&G 2357 to get your knowledge base, NVQ3 and be able to work in industry.

Search this site for Tradeskills4U there are a lot of threads about them.

 

[markc123]

What he said ^^ And, just a little pointer - don't let them tell you that Part P is a qualifaction, because it isn't. Part P is just part of the building regulations, so don't be brain washed by them.

 

[Sintra]

I know this question has probably been asked a dozen times, just need some clarification on a few things. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just been made redundant. Been thinking of doing a Domestic Installer Course for several years as I wish to pursue new work avenues. My idea was to take one of the many available courses so I could become a Domestic Installer and get approved by one of the bodies so I can sign off my own work. I would eventually like to go down the Solar PV route having a specific interest in the area. If I go ahead, pass the course and become approved would I be OK to just go out there and work on a self-employed basis doing general domestic electrical work in my local area? I hear the market is a bit saturated at the moment (is this true?) so the likely hood is I will have to do something else as well?
I was thinking of doing the 18 day domestic course at tradeskills4u this will give me the following quals:-

City & Guilds 4141-01 - Electrical Installation Work within a Domestic Dwelling

City & Guilds 2393 – Part P Building Regulations

City & guilds 2392-10 – Inspection & Testing Course

City & Guilds 2382-12 – 17th Edition Wiring Regulations (Including latest amendments)

Would this be a good starting point to become a domestic installer and does anyone have any experience with tradeskills4u? Apart from OLCI, who seem expensive and very pushy are they any other training centres in and around the Leeds, Manchester areas people would recommend?

Also, I hear that the government is about to completely change these courses, increasing the time period to 8 weeks training. Is this true and how will it affect those individuals who have passed the course but not yet approved?

Thanks.

Still not enough by a country mile.

 

[markc123]

Still not enough by a country mile.

I think that country mile needs upgrading to a triathalon lol

 

[Darkwood]

The country is flooded with people already holding these Qual's and way above in experience and courses passed but domestic is been a saturation... many fully qualified companies sparkies are struggling in the domestic still and 10's of thousands have been put out of work ... don't be fooled by these 'EXPECT POSSIBLE EARNINGS OR YOU COULD EARN!!!' crap reality is you will have passed your already limited monies over to a course that will benefit you zero.... I may be wrong you may land lucky but im willing to bet you regret it in this climate.. with no experience you will be hard to employ regardless of paper results and then your at the back of the experience list if you gain any .....loads more out there stuck in the same rut ... look into your local area you may be in a good situe if kind of remote etc but any big town or city you may struggle. I might sound pessimistic but Im always in the local wholesalers and the story has been the same for last 3+yrs of local bosses I know having to drop most of their staff ... Good luck though I give warning not direction just do your research especially to your area.

 

[Alana Fox]

Hi bobit200,

Alana here from OLCI Construction Training.

Within our Domestic Electrical package we offer a wide range of qualifications. Craig is our Careers Advisor Manager here at OLCI and is very helpful. I have passed on your concerns so when you speak to Craig you will just get the information you need.

Please call Craig on 020 7107 0334, alternatively you can email me on [email protected] with a phone number and suitable time to call you back.

We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Best wishes,

Alana Fox

 

[ian.settle1]

Do any of these course providers teach anyone how to design an installation as if not are they not in breach of section 1 of Part P?

 

[robbalaar86]

Why does every man and his dog think it's that easy to be an electrician?

Really is insulting that after years of training people can become sparks after 8 weeks.

I would love to be a doctor. Are there any 8 week courses?

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi Bobit200,

Please do search this site for feedback on us. You should find it is generally very positive. However make sure you do not get us confused with any other training providers with similar names. We offer a huge range of courses for those new to the industry and experienced guys out there already working.

You can call us for advice on which course to take, we are now offering some courses in Warrington but the majority of the package you have identified will need to be taken at Gatwick.

 

[Octopus]

What ALL of these so called courses lack is hands on experience.

The big wide world isn't like the pictures in the OSG, so think very, very carefully about committing thousands on a career change, as you will not end up employable at the end.

 

[Guest111]

More and more employers want experience,all the quals in the world are no good if they have to babysit you to make sure the job's done right.

 

[markc123]

I was thinking of doing the 18 day domestic course at tradeskills4u this will give me the following quals:-

City & Guilds 4141-01 - Electrical Installation Work within a Domestic Dwelling What is this qualification? Sounds made up to me, won't get much recognition in the industry and you'll probably struggle to get a job. Micky Mouse springs to mind.

City & Guilds 2393 – Part P Building Regulations This is NOT a qualification.

City & guilds 2392-10 – Inspection & Testing Course This is NOT a proper inspection and testing qualification, this is only at level 2 standard. 2394 and 2395 are what you need, not this.

City & Guilds 2382-12 – 17th Edition Wiring Regulations (Including latest amendments) About the only thing recongisible from the above list - and again, this is a joke, any muggins can pass this.

Would this be a good starting point to become a domestic installer No.

My thoughts are in red.

 

[telectrix]

and very clearly put. so i've give you a ta and a loike.

 

[Octopus]

My thoughts are in red.

I see that the forum sponsor is ignoring the comments made by members - I wonder why??

To the OP - you MUST realise that all you get is some pieces of paper...... with no hands on experience.

 

[UNG]

I see that the forum sponsor is ignoring the comments made by members - I wonder why??

Do you have to ask they can't defend the indefensible and there not going to talk down their courses

To the OP - you MUST realise that all you get is some pieces of paper...... with no hands on experience.

And forget the £50K+ pay packet

 

[Octopus]

Do you have to ask they can't defend the indefensible and there not going to talk down their courses



And forget the £50K+ pay packet

Well..... The "forum sponsor" is free to correct us if they so wish!

 

[markc123]

Well..... The "forum sponsor" is free to correct us if they so wish!

You'll be waiting till christmas for that.

.......christmas 2060.

 

[Octopus]

You'll be waiting till christmas for that.

.......christmas 2060.

No, lets give them a chance to reply today..... I'm guessing they don't log in at home.

 

[Kate]

The domestic installer course is not enough to go self employed.

I have just taken on a subby with these exact qualifications and I can tell you from experience that it is not enough. These courses give you basic theory and thats it.

The domestic installer electrical install qualification practical is nothing like onsite. Its just a lighting rig in a small bay. A small ring and a radial, and a cooker circuit...all in a small workshop bay. All clipped direct.

The test and inspect course is not much, again basic theory..Ive done at least 20tests with him since and its only just starting to click properly.

there was a guy on my subbys course who went straight on to self employment...all my subby keeps saying is he must be mad

 

[telectrix]

i liken it to a solicitor doing a short course. he might be able to conveyance a house sale, but i'd not have him defend me on a criminal charge.

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses and have done numerous times on numerous threads on this forum. The courses we offer are an excellent way to enter the industry and do give you some very good hands on experience of doing all the main circuits found in a domestic setting as well as how to inspect and test these. As with any profession there is plenty to learn once you are working on site, however the key thing you will walk out of the course knowing is how to safely install in a domestic setting and a solid grounding in both the practical and theory of domestic installations.

We have checked with both the scheme providers and building control and they all recognise the courses contained within the Bronze package especially the 2392 which allows you to inspect and test your own installations. The 2392 does contain both theory and practical teaching and in order to pass you will need to demonstrate your practical skills in a C&G assessment.

Phil D is right, More and more employers do want experience but how do you get that experience? Apprenticeship are very hard to come by these days especially if you are over the age of 21 so how do you break into the industry? Employers are much more likely to take on someone who has invested in themselves and retrained. These people will have a solid grounding in the correct way to do things and as such are much easier to work with than someone that is completely green.

The real issue in the industry is the number of people working without proper training. What happens if you work under their supervision with no training yourself? You can end up with a situation with the blind are leading the blind. That’s why we have formal qualifications.

And no I am not knocking experience, I just think that formal training and experience is the best way to go. And more often than not the best way into any industry electrical or any other is to start with the training.

 

[Octopus]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses and have done numerous times on numerous threads on this forum. The courses we offer are an excellent way to enter the industry and do give you some very good hands on experience of doing all the main circuits found in a domestic setting as well as how to inspect and test these. As with any profession there is plenty to learn once you are working on site, however the key thing you will walk out of the course knowing is how to safely install in a domestic setting and a solid grounding in both the practical and theory of domestic installations.

We have checked with both the scheme providers and building control and they all recognise the courses contained within the Bronze package especially the 2392 which allows you to inspect and test your own installations. The 2392 does contain both theory and practical teaching and in order to pass you will need to demonstrate your practical skills in a C&G assessment.

Phil D is right, More and more employers do want experience but how do you get that experience? Apprenticeship are very hard to come by these days especially if you are over the age of 21 so how do you break into the industry? Employers are much more likely to take on someone who has invested in themselves and retrained. These people will have a solid grounding in the correct way to do things and as such are much easier to work with than someone that is completely green.

The real issue in the industry is the number of people working without proper training. What happens if you work under their supervision with no training yourself? You can end up with a situation with the blind are leading the blind. That’s why we have formal qualifications.

And no I am not knocking experience, I just think that formal training and experience is the best way to go. And more often than not the best way into any industry electrical or any other is to start with the training.

So, come on then, outline how many hours/days/weeks you spend on this then?

 

[UNG]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses and have done numerous times on numerous threads on this forum. The courses we offer are an excellent way to enter the industry and do give you some very good hands on experience of doing all the main circuits found in a domestic setting as well as how to inspect and test these. As with any profession there is plenty to learn once you are working on site, however the key thing you will walk out of the course knowing is how to safely install in a domestic setting and a solid grounding in both the practical and theory of domestic installations.

Given the nature of a lot of these courses and the very short study periods I would suggest you can give very little real world hands on experience. Being able to safely install is only part of the bigger picture of this trade

We have checked with both the scheme providers and building control and they all recognise the courses contained within the Bronze package especially the 2392 which allows you to inspect and test your own installations. The 2392 does contain both theory and practical teaching and in order to pass you will need to demonstrate your practical skills in a C&G assessment.

I assume from this you have approached the JIB and asked for their opinion as for the scheme providers we all know what they are about they are part of the natural progression from your organisation

Phil D is right, More and more employers do want experience but how do you get that experience? Apprenticeship are very hard to come by these days especially if you are over the age of 21 so how do you break into the industry? Employers are much more likely to take on someone who has invested in themselves and retrained. These people will have a solid grounding in the correct way to do things and as such are much easier to work with than someone that is completely green.

The electrical industry has become a magnet for a large number of people via the retraining route this can be divided up into those who invest the time and gain the C&G 2330, 2382, 2391 etc or the newer equivalents and those who invest a large amount of money and a small amount of time. I think the person who has invested the time will have a much more solid grounding and lack the arrogance of the quick course trained people that is all to apparent on here

The real issue in the industry is the number of people working without proper training. What happens if you work under their supervision with no training yourself? You can end up with a situation with the blind are leading the blind. That’s why we have formal qualifications.

And no I am not knocking experience, I just think that formal training and experience is the best way to go. And more often than not the best way into any industry electrical or any other is to start with the training.

It still does not answer why you think it is ok to enter an industry without any core electrical qualification e.g. C&G 2330 which is very apparent from some of the most basic questions that are asked on this and other forums.
And what is a C&G 4141 - 01 qualification tried to look it up on the City & Guilds site and it does not exist so how is it a recognised qualification
You will have to excuse the expression but the quick training system seems to short circuit the proper training route without giving good underpinning knowledge

 

[bugsy]

Trouble is these poor sod's do your instant sparkie course's then find they are unable to a job because there are not many bits of chip board requiring two double sockets a switch a length of conduit and a C.U. attached , and they won't get 50k a year
Very misleading IMO