Domestic Installers Course - Ummmm!!

[bobit200]

I know this question has probably been asked a dozen times, just need some clarification on a few things. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Just been made redundant. Been thinking of doing a Domestic Installer Course for several years as I wish to pursue new work avenues. My idea was to take one of the many available courses so I could become a Domestic Installer and get approved by one of the bodies so I can sign off my own work. I would eventually like to go down the Solar PV route having a specific interest in the area. If I go ahead, pass the course and become approved would I be OK to just go out there and work on a self-employed basis doing general domestic electrical work in my local area? I hear the market is a bit saturated at the moment (is this true?) so the likely hood is I will have to do something else as well?
I was thinking of doing the 18 day domestic course at tradeskills4u this will give me the following quals:-

City & Guilds 4141-01 - Electrical Installation Work within a Domestic Dwelling

City & Guilds 2393 – Part P Building Regulations

City & guilds 2392-10 – Inspection & Testing Course

City & Guilds 2382-12 – 17th Edition Wiring Regulations (Including latest amendments)

Would this be a good starting point to become a domestic installer and does anyone have any experience with tradeskills4u? Apart from OLCI, who seem expensive and very pushy are they any other training centres in and around the Leeds, Manchester areas people would recommend?

Also, I hear that the government is about to completely change these courses, increasing the time period to 8 weeks training. Is this true and how will it affect those individuals who have passed the course but not yet approved?

Thanks.

 

[UNG]

I see that the forum sponsor is ignoring the comments made by members - I wonder why??

Do you have to ask they can't defend the indefensible and there not going to talk down their courses

To the OP - you MUST realise that all you get is some pieces of paper...... with no hands on experience.

And forget the £50K+ pay packet

 

[Octopus]

Do you have to ask they can't defend the indefensible and there not going to talk down their courses



And forget the £50K+ pay packet

Well..... The "forum sponsor" is free to correct us if they so wish!

 

[markc123]

Well..... The "forum sponsor" is free to correct us if they so wish!

You'll be waiting till christmas for that.

.......christmas 2060.

 

[Octopus]

You'll be waiting till christmas for that.

.......christmas 2060.

No, lets give them a chance to reply today..... I'm guessing they don't log in at home.

 

[Kate]

The domestic installer course is not enough to go self employed.

I have just taken on a subby with these exact qualifications and I can tell you from experience that it is not enough. These courses give you basic theory and thats it.

The domestic installer electrical install qualification practical is nothing like onsite. Its just a lighting rig in a small bay. A small ring and a radial, and a cooker circuit...all in a small workshop bay. All clipped direct.

The test and inspect course is not much, again basic theory..Ive done at least 20tests with him since and its only just starting to click properly.

there was a guy on my subbys course who went straight on to self employment...all my subby keeps saying is he must be mad

 

[telectrix]

i liken it to a solicitor doing a short course. he might be able to conveyance a house sale, but i'd not have him defend me on a criminal charge.

 

[Tradeskills4u]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses and have done numerous times on numerous threads on this forum. The courses we offer are an excellent way to enter the industry and do give you some very good hands on experience of doing all the main circuits found in a domestic setting as well as how to inspect and test these. As with any profession there is plenty to learn once you are working on site, however the key thing you will walk out of the course knowing is how to safely install in a domestic setting and a solid grounding in both the practical and theory of domestic installations.

We have checked with both the scheme providers and building control and they all recognise the courses contained within the Bronze package especially the 2392 which allows you to inspect and test your own installations. The 2392 does contain both theory and practical teaching and in order to pass you will need to demonstrate your practical skills in a C&G assessment.

Phil D is right, More and more employers do want experience but how do you get that experience? Apprenticeship are very hard to come by these days especially if you are over the age of 21 so how do you break into the industry? Employers are much more likely to take on someone who has invested in themselves and retrained. These people will have a solid grounding in the correct way to do things and as such are much easier to work with than someone that is completely green.

The real issue in the industry is the number of people working without proper training. What happens if you work under their supervision with no training yourself? You can end up with a situation with the blind are leading the blind. That’s why we have formal qualifications.

And no I am not knocking experience, I just think that formal training and experience is the best way to go. And more often than not the best way into any industry electrical or any other is to start with the training.

 

[Octopus]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses and have done numerous times on numerous threads on this forum. The courses we offer are an excellent way to enter the industry and do give you some very good hands on experience of doing all the main circuits found in a domestic setting as well as how to inspect and test these. As with any profession there is plenty to learn once you are working on site, however the key thing you will walk out of the course knowing is how to safely install in a domestic setting and a solid grounding in both the practical and theory of domestic installations.

We have checked with both the scheme providers and building control and they all recognise the courses contained within the Bronze package especially the 2392 which allows you to inspect and test your own installations. The 2392 does contain both theory and practical teaching and in order to pass you will need to demonstrate your practical skills in a C&G assessment.

Phil D is right, More and more employers do want experience but how do you get that experience? Apprenticeship are very hard to come by these days especially if you are over the age of 21 so how do you break into the industry? Employers are much more likely to take on someone who has invested in themselves and retrained. These people will have a solid grounding in the correct way to do things and as such are much easier to work with than someone that is completely green.

The real issue in the industry is the number of people working without proper training. What happens if you work under their supervision with no training yourself? You can end up with a situation with the blind are leading the blind. That’s why we have formal qualifications.

And no I am not knocking experience, I just think that formal training and experience is the best way to go. And more often than not the best way into any industry electrical or any other is to start with the training.

So, come on then, outline how many hours/days/weeks you spend on this then?

 

[UNG]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses and have done numerous times on numerous threads on this forum. The courses we offer are an excellent way to enter the industry and do give you some very good hands on experience of doing all the main circuits found in a domestic setting as well as how to inspect and test these. As with any profession there is plenty to learn once you are working on site, however the key thing you will walk out of the course knowing is how to safely install in a domestic setting and a solid grounding in both the practical and theory of domestic installations.

Given the nature of a lot of these courses and the very short study periods I would suggest you can give very little real world hands on experience. Being able to safely install is only part of the bigger picture of this trade

We have checked with both the scheme providers and building control and they all recognise the courses contained within the Bronze package especially the 2392 which allows you to inspect and test your own installations. The 2392 does contain both theory and practical teaching and in order to pass you will need to demonstrate your practical skills in a C&G assessment.

I assume from this you have approached the JIB and asked for their opinion as for the scheme providers we all know what they are about they are part of the natural progression from your organisation

Phil D is right, More and more employers do want experience but how do you get that experience? Apprenticeship are very hard to come by these days especially if you are over the age of 21 so how do you break into the industry? Employers are much more likely to take on someone who has invested in themselves and retrained. These people will have a solid grounding in the correct way to do things and as such are much easier to work with than someone that is completely green.

The electrical industry has become a magnet for a large number of people via the retraining route this can be divided up into those who invest the time and gain the C&G 2330, 2382, 2391 etc or the newer equivalents and those who invest a large amount of money and a small amount of time. I think the person who has invested the time will have a much more solid grounding and lack the arrogance of the quick course trained people that is all to apparent on here

The real issue in the industry is the number of people working without proper training. What happens if you work under their supervision with no training yourself? You can end up with a situation with the blind are leading the blind. That’s why we have formal qualifications.

And no I am not knocking experience, I just think that formal training and experience is the best way to go. And more often than not the best way into any industry electrical or any other is to start with the training.

It still does not answer why you think it is ok to enter an industry without any core electrical qualification e.g. C&G 2330 which is very apparent from some of the most basic questions that are asked on this and other forums.
And what is a C&G 4141 - 01 qualification tried to look it up on the City & Guilds site and it does not exist so how is it a recognised qualification
You will have to excuse the expression but the quick training system seems to short circuit the proper training route without giving good underpinning knowledge

 

[bugsy]

Trouble is these poor sod's do your instant sparkie course's then find they are unable to a job because there are not many bits of chip board requiring two double sockets a switch a length of conduit and a C.U. attached , and they won't get 50k a year
Very misleading IMO

 

[Andy78]

How do you come up with your course fees for these "skim over" courses. My guess is its based on the average redundancy payment.

 

[telectrix]

very catty. i like it. now i see the point of your avatar. :77:

 

[7029 dave]

Hello, IMHO, to be called an experienced (electrician) you should have done the full c&g course's ie proper apprentership. Ideally started at school leaving age, and have experience in all aspects of this industry, domestic,industral and commercial. This new breed of electrician that's been created (only domestic installer) is utter nonsense. If people want to come into this trade late then good luck (but mayebe they have missed the boat) but it will be blood sweat and tears!! as it was for me when I was 16 lets make no bones about that. As for these short course's how the hell can you learn a skill in 5 minutes?.When it took a lot of us years, 33 years on and I am still learning!!.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Hi all,

I am happy to defend these courses .............

Can you provide us all with any figures, such as, how many of your graduates gain full time employment within the electrical industry, and secondly, what kind of annual income are they earning?

 

[Kate]

Some of what was said is right...it can open up an avenue with a company as it gives basic theory...the practical is not worth the cost of the cable used!!