Domestic PIR No RCD - can I / can't I?

[mattcos1972]

Evening all!
Quick domestic PIR question.
I have been asked to PIR on a home for a friend of mine. The installation is perfectly sound throughout the home. Lighting is split into 2 circuits, there are a total of 5 ring finals for the sockets as extensions / loft conversions have been added over the years. All spurs are fused, including boiler etc.
All dead tests, Ze, PFC & Zs are well within their parameters. IR is off the scale and every ring test is spot on. Smoke alarms are interlinked, mains powered and battery backed up, even the doorbell is fused off a lighting ring. Basically it's spot on....only problem is there are no RCDs.....Can I pass it on a PIR? The installation went in in 2002. I've not been sparksing for that long so I don't know what the regs were at the time?

Thanks in advance for any help, opinions, advice etc........

Oh and yes, I am 2391 before you ask!!

 

[DurhamSparky]

whay would it be code 1!!!!??

it was designed to a previous edition that did not required use of rcds!! the installation has not changed but the regs have!! hence the reason for code 4 (does not meet requirements of 7671:2008)

by coding a code 1 you are insinuating it is dangerous and needs rectifying ASAP! which it is not!

Code 1 = dangerous
Code 2 = Needs Attention
Code 3 = Further Investigation
Code 4 = Not as per current regs!!

 

[i=p/u]

im sure your right , il read tomorrow ,

 

[terminator]

He is right - just to save you reading

 

[telectrix]

i=p/u. read up on your codes.

 

[Paul.M]

He is right - just to save you reading

Lol.

No, let him read it. Maybe next time he will read and know the info before answering. Code 1 for not having rcd in a perfect install by all other tests. We would have to rewire every house built before 2008.

 

[IQ Electrical]

It doesn't matter whether he reads up on codes/PIR's or not, it only matters when he fires off incorrect advice on a forum without thinking first.

Some guys actually use our posts to formulate the codings for their PIR's so let's just think before hitting the 'post' button!

 

[DurhamSparky]

i met sparks like that who scare old ladies into getting new fuse boxes as they got no RCD!!!

 

[telectrix]

we were all young and fired up once. what happened?

 

[DurhamSparky]

we got shafted by the kitchen fitters and plumbers!!

 

[telectrix]

once upon a time kitchens were fitted by joiners, not a couple of boneheads with a flatpack and an IKEA allen key, and everyone worked with each other trade in perfect harmony. joiners joined, pumbers plumbed, sparkys sparked . now mr. bodgit builder does it all and it's ok because he's got part scope and a villa in spain.

 

[baldelectrician]

I may agree or not

my opinion
If it complies to the 16th then it's OK, providing:
There is supplimentary bonding in the bathroom with a coninuity od < 0.05 ohms across it all
and
there is an RCD on the sockets (or a RCD socket marked 'for equipment outdoors'


If there is NO RCD and NO supplimentary bonding then i would fail

It has to comply with the old regs- not just the bits you pick and choose

 

[baldelectrician]

See BPG page 13

 

[Paul.M]

The op question is what code for this on a PIR. He says everything is good but no rcd. It's a simple code 4, doesn't comply with current regs but still safe and satisfactory for the date it was installed. Most I would do is advise installing rcbo's to existing board or change of socket to an rcd sockets used for outdoors equipment like you've said.

 

[baldelectrician]

I would code 2 - it would be a fail (BPG page 13)

Unless there was supplimentary bonding in the bathroom

The 16th required supp bonding. SB has to have a continuity of <0.05 ohms or > 200 M ohms IR

 

[baldelectrician]

Code 2:

Abscence of supplimentary bonding where required, such as in a bathroom or shower room, where ALL of the following conditions are NOT satisfied

• All final circuits of the location comply with the requirements of 411.3.2 for automatic disconnection, and
• All final circuits of the location have additional protection by means of a 30mA RCD, and
• All extraneous-conductive parts of the location are effectively connected to the main protective equipotential bonding (main earthing terminal)

Note where the prescence of supplimentary bonding cannot be confirmed by inspection, it may be verified by a continuity test (<0.05 ohm)

The above is from the BPG