Earthing Help

[geordie]

Have been asked to install some lights into a garage attached to a house. At the moment there is a socket in the garage. So going to take a fused spur from this to power the lights. There is a rcd on the system. The cu is a old style board rcd is place on the supply cables before they get to the board.
Its a tt arrangement. But there is no gas or water bonding. Having checked 131.8 and it says if
Regulation 131.8 states that, amongst other requirements, the earthing and bonding arrangements are to be adequate for the intended altered circumstance.
Would you upgrade the bonding or leave it as it is adequate for whats been altered.
Gas is at the other side of the house and water is at the back of the house cu is next to the front door. Customer really does not what cables run all round the house. Maybe able to get them to have a earth ran along the outside of the house for gas. But water would be a major job. Nothing else close to the cu to bond to.

 

[Spudnik]

No bonding is not adequate.

This must be done before you proceed with any works.

 

[Noton1205]

Just a suggestion, but could you not put an earth rod in and attachthe bonding to that rather than run all that earth cable

 

[geordie]

I will bond to the gas but there will be no chance of the customer letting me bond to water.
No were to site a rod house has no garden to front and has a yard to the back.

 

[Spudnik]

Its your call then.

An installation should not even be energised before all bonds are in place.

Have you shown them the ESC leaflet?

 

[Des 56]

Best to think about what the bonding is there for, and why the earth conductor is there, rather than just looping off one to another

The services are bonded at the accessable point of entry for good reason
Jason gave the advice that most would follow,but its your decision to do as you want

Just puzzling over the quote
No were to site a rod house has no garden to front and has a yard to the back.
If there is no where to site a rod,where is the existing means of earthing, if its TT ?

 

[cbw]

If its not practical to bond the water at the correct location, can you get a bond to somewhere else?? Then mark it as a deviation on the MIC. At least then you have made an effort to comply.

Another spike would introduce another potential difference

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Jason is spot on mate. Is there anywhere you could bond gas to water in the kitchen? not Ideal I know but its better than what you have now.

You would be on stony ground if you carry on regardless.

This is the first thing i check when quoting for work.

Cheers..........Howard

 

[malcolmsanford]

When you say in your OP "Upgrade the bonding" does that mean that there is already bonding to both the gas and water pipe?. If there is what size is it now.

As you know in a TT installation your bonding only as to be half the size of the main earth conductor and a minimum of 6mm (reg 544.1.1), what is the size of your main earth conductor from the Rod?

As you know under certain condition your main earth conductor can be as small as 2.5mm (Reg 543.1.1), certainly no problems in a TT system, so there are ways to go about this.

Another worry is that RCD on the tails incoming, is it an RCD or an old ELCB and can you test it to see if it is still operational? If you can't confirm that it is operational then you have to change it.

 

[Engineer54]

That earth leakage trip sounds to me very much a voltage operated unit, .....If it is, then as Malcolm stated it HAS to be replaced with an RCD device.

As for the grounding, if this installation doesn't have an earth rod at present then your gonna have to put one in. If that means breaking up a bit of concrete , then so be it !!!

So too with the installations main bonding arrangements, both the gas an the water need bonding back to the MET. If the water is going to be a problem to connect as it enters the house, then bond where it is accessable, as others here have stated. If you walk away from this responsibility after making alterations to the installation then your backside is gonna be exposed, if anything goes amiss at a later date, whether it was anything to do with your work or not!!!

 

[geordie]

after a long day I have bonded to the gas and going to bond to the water via a radiator and link up under the sink were the stop tap is.Have been up and down the street today and a few house have had rod placed outside.
There is a earth going off from the board to outside but i cannot see were it goes to. So looks like its time to get the sds out and fit a rod
Thanks for all the help so far