ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

As announced yesterday the ECA and ESC have formed a new partnership for the good of the industry.

From April next year the NICEIC and ELECSA brands will be operated by a new venture called Certsure giving the industry a stronger voice to government and major stakeholders.

The move will bring many benefits to NICEIC and ELECSA registrants, the first of which is the creation of www.electricalsafetyregister.com a definitive searchable database of more than 30 000 registered electricians.

As part of our policy to be open and informative about the merger we have set up this thread for anyone to ask any questions or queries they might have.

A member of the NICEIC team will monitor the site at various points over the next week and provide answers to any questions you might have about the move.

We want you to get involved and look forward to hearing from you.

 

[RJT_94]

The reply from napit after i asked about why they where not involved, didnt rely answer my question but raises a fair point why would they recreate what they already have got. "There are currently two electric safe registers, the one started by NAPIT is the electric safe register.co.uk this is the register put in place by NAPIT for all competent persons of all schemes, there is a second register set up by the NICEIC for their members and ECA, ELECSA members only"

 

[MDJ]

Yes the cash registers are ringing out 9-5 every day, cu ching

 

[Knobhead]

Money Makes the World Go Round - YouTube

 

[Engineer54]

The sooner people here realise that none of these Scheme Providers, will get involved with anything that is not commercially profitable to them the better!!

Since there introduction, overall standards of competency in the domestic sector have plummeted as far as i can see, so this so-called safety drive, is nothing but a well organised farce to hide, not solve the real problems!! Which in essence is of they're own making.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, you can't in one hand fly the banner for ''safety'', while the other is allowing the grossly under trained and inexperienced register as competent persons onto their registers!! That's just a mockery and making mug's out of you and the public

What you need, is a National Register of Qualified Electricians , one that has realistic entry levels that relate to qualifications and experience, along with the teeth to police such a register!!

You can then get rid of all these Scam Providers, as the function for which they were created, for will no longer be required....

 

[Geordie Spark]

The sooner people here realise that none of these Scheme Providers, will get involved with anything that is not commercially profitable to them the better!!

Since there introduction, overall standards of competency in the domestic sector have plummeted as far as i can see, so this so-called safety drive, is nothing but a well organised farce to hide, not solve the real problems!! Which in essence is of they're own making.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, you can't in one hand fly the banner for ''safety'', while the other is allowing the grossly under trained and inexperienced register as competent persons onto their registers!! That's just a mockery and making mug's out of you and the public

What you need, is a National Register of Qualified Electricians , one that has realistic entry levels that relate to qualifications and experience, along with the teeth to police such a register!!

You can then get rid of all these Scam Providers, as the function for which they were created, for will no longer be required....

........... which is why when I was working I had NOTHING to do with ANY of them whatsoever.

I've said it before & I'm saying it again right here and right now: These scammers exist ONLY because WE allow them to. Boycott them en-masse and that will be the end of them.

 

[Rockingit]

Just to put some balance into this, I think there IS an organisation for Part P which isn't solely in it for the dosh, and that's the BSi. The reason for this thinking is that they exist for a whole load more reasons than electricians, and their Kitemark Installer scheme applies to an overall standard of electrical work, not just domestic. The same Kitemark also applies just as vigorously to a whole host of other industries and is arguably the only true International marque of the bunch.

Ironically, they are also the most expensive of the bunch to join and have far more robust criteria for knowledge, methods and inspection than ever the others do. That's probably why there's only 138 registered kitemark installers in the UK. 139 once I've finished the paperwork...

 

[BlueToBits]

I've paid a small fortune to BSi over the years in regulations, standards and updates.

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

Morning All. Thanks for the comments. The thread was set upto answer questions specifically about the new Joint Venture. While i think we havestrayed off from that topic slightly I will try and answer some of the pointsraised.
If anyone has any further questions about the merger betweenthe ECA and ESC then please do post them up today and we will try to get themanswered.

Promotion
The Electrical Safety Register will be promoted extensivelyto consumers and specifiers of electrical work. We commit to spend a proportionof all fees on marketing the register so that it becomes the number onesearchable database for registered electricians. We have already sent out morethan 20 000 letters to MPs, local authorities, housing associations and othersuch leading organisations informing them about the move.
Public relations and marketing plans are already in placeand we’re confident the Electrical Safety Register will benefit NICEIC andELECSA registrants.
As a separate point, the Electrical Safety Register isn’tjust aimed at householders, NICEIC Approved Contractors and ECA registeredmembers are on there too. The electrical contracting industry is broad and the register isn’t just focussed on Domestic Installers.
Part P
NICEIC, partnering with the ECA and ELECSA has expressed itsviews on the future of Part P to the DCLG during its recent consultation and weawait to see government’s decision on the proposal. A large part of oursubmission was that more needed to be done to promote Part P to consumers andas a scheme operator we have a responsibility to do this in conjunction withgovernment.
In terms of policing, we are accredited by the UnitedKingdom Accreditation Service (UKAS) which audits us annually, and the recentSelect Committee, where NICEIC stood alongside ECA and the ESC, we welcomedmore scrutiny over Scheme Operators. We welcome this and the added transparencythis will bring.
Competent Persons /Standards
NICEIC Engineers carry out visits to our 26,000 registeredcontractors each year and inspect around 300 000 jobs and reports back are thatstandards are on the increase.
NICEIC operates a robust and rigorous qualification forregistration, accredited by UKAS. This includes, an inspection of arepresentative sample of the companies work, assessment at their premises to ensure they have documentation andrecords, employs only competent persons to carry out electrical work, hasevidence of required insurances and an, inspection of their equipment andpremises. Most importantly, it includes a requirement for regular periodicinspections and assessments of organisations and principle named individuals toensure standards are continually met.
However, in the same way that the British MedicalAssociation cannot oversee every operation performed by a surgeon, the NICEICis not in a position to test every electrical installation itself. The fact that a contractor has properly beenapproved to work to best industry standards on assessment cannot, regrettably,rule out the possibility that acontractor, or someone working for them, may be negligent in relation to aspecific electrical installation in the future.
Much like when you pass a driving test that person has aduty of care to act safely and responsible. Our annual assessments ensurestandards are maintained and that training is up to date whilst also providingthe company the opportunity to ask our skilled engineers any questions orqueries they might have.
There are several factors as to why it isn’t possible tomake registration on a Register mandatory or indeed register the individualinstead of a company. Firstly you just have to listen to our customers – or anyelectrician -to realise how tough the economic climate is. Anything thatincreases costs for contractors wouldn’t be right or ethical at this time. Secondly,there is no appetite at government level to do this and this was clear at therecent Select Committee on Part P.

I hope this helps answer some questions and if there are any more specifically relating to the new joint venture then i am happy to respond. Thanks for your time.

 

[UNG]

Competent Persons /Standards
NICEIC Engineers carry out visits to our 26,000 registered contractors each year and inspect around 300 000 jobs and reports back are that standards are on the increase.

Your statistics are only representative of a portion of the industry and possibly do not give a true picture of reality as you don't state what level they are benchmarked against

I would like to think standards couldn't get any lower than they are as they appear to have been on the decline for years so let hope things can only get better

 

[Spoon]

I applaud you for coming back and answering the questions. I would give you a pat on the back for that.
As was pointed out earlier, of course you are going to promote this new venture. If it takes off and everyone uses it then people in the other schemes will have to move to yours, or lose out. This will make you a lot more money! How about spending more time getting all the schemes involved and actually make this about ELECTRICAL SAFETY rather than MONEY.

 

[SAILOR48]

Now that you have merged will you be getting rid of duplicate people and practises?
(I think its called economy of scale)
Thus making membership a lot cheaper?
Or will you keep all your mates happy and keep every on board the band wagon?
Why aren’t they honest and say ---- the ECA and the NICEIC merging.

 

[AP Electrical]

Niceic eng, what proportion as a percentage of a contractors yearly fees goes to the promotion of part p to home owners, out of interest as I feel contractors have a right to know. I understand the fees cover a variety of your cost such as yearly inspection's etc.

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

Forgot to post this earlier but here is a link to a video which outlines a bit more about the merger. It contains interviews with ECA CEO Steve Bratt, ESC Director General Phil Buckle and NICEIC CEO Emma Clancy.

Electrical Safety Register - YouTube

 

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

In reply to AP Electrical - i don't know exact figures but a largeproportion of our work is dedicated to raising consumer awareness about theneed to employ NICEIC registered electricians. Over the last two years we havealso ran several high profile media campaigns including ‘MOT Your Home’ and ‘Don’tTake the P.’
The ‘MOT Your Home’ campaign was a national consumer safety campaignwarning householders about the need to carry out regular checks on their home.
Our ‘Don’t takethe P’ campaign educated homeowners on the importance of carrying outelectrical work in compliance with building regulation Part P. This was anational campaign focusing on the importance of choosing an NICEIC registeredelectrician when carrying out work at home.

 

[Guest111]

Dear sir re your recent comment that it isn,t possible to make a national register mandatory why not?After all if you want to drive you must pass a driving test wether you like it or not,same thing with electrics if you want to work you have to be on the register,after all it works with a lot of other professional groups as I listed in an earlier post.At the end of the day the reason there is an objection to a national register is not as you state that most sparks don,t want it,that can be evinced by reading the posts on here.The simple fact of the matter is the organisers of the schemes do not want it as they will lose money.