ECA and ESC announce major partnership

[NICEIC ENGINEER]

As announced yesterday the ECA and ESC have formed a new partnership for the good of the industry.

From April next year the NICEIC and ELECSA brands will be operated by a new venture called Certsure giving the industry a stronger voice to government and major stakeholders.

The move will bring many benefits to NICEIC and ELECSA registrants, the first of which is the creation of www.electricalsafetyregister.com a definitive searchable database of more than 30 000 registered electricians.

As part of our policy to be open and informative about the merger we have set up this thread for anyone to ask any questions or queries they might have.

A member of the NICEIC team will monitor the site at various points over the next week and provide answers to any questions you might have about the move.

We want you to get involved and look forward to hearing from you.

 

[Guest111]

In reply to AP Electrical - i don't know exact figures but a largeproportion of our work is dedicated to raising consumer awareness about theneed to employ NICEIC registered electricians. Over the last two years we havealso ran several high profile media campaigns including ‘MOT Your Home’ and ‘Don’tTake the P.’
The ‘MOT Your Home’ campaign was a national consumer safety campaignwarning householders about the need to carry out regular checks on their home.
Our ‘Don’t takethe P’ campaign educated homeowners on the importance of carrying outelectrical work in compliance with building regulation Part P. This was anational campaign focusing on the importance of choosing an NICEIC registeredelectrician when carrying out work at home.

Sir your post has proved my point about money entirely,your campaign to promote the use of an NICEIC approved electrician why not just an approved electrician?Or are you therefore saying that the NIC produce some kind of superior electrician,better than any who belong to the other schemes?At the end of the day if public safety was the sole issue then a campaign to use any approved electrician would have looked better,think like the advert for the TV TIMES,other listings magazines are available.

 

[AP Electrical]

Thank you for your swift reply niceic eng, I appreciate your answer but if I'm honest I've never heard of any of them - but maybe that's just me. There must be less than 5 % of my customers have heard of part p even though you run national campaigns.
Would you say you're failing your members?.

 

[brman]

Thank you for your swift reply niceic eng, I appreciate your answer but if I'm honest I've never heard of any of them - but maybe that's just me. There must be less than 5 % of my customers have heard of part p even though you run national campaigns.
Would you say you're failing your members?.

Very true, I have only ever heard of campaigns because, as an electrician, I get emails from the ESC etc and read trade mags. Very few of my customers have heard of part P and even less know what it really means and how it affects them.

Looking on the bright side, if the combined register means combining resources to manage these campaigns then it could help. I don't know the figures but if 50,000 contractors pay the NIC/ELECSA etc £400 a year each and if only 10% of that could be spent on publicity you still have £2 Million to play with, surely that is enough to start making a real difference?

 

[Geordie Spark]

In reply to AP Electrical - i don't know exact figures but a largeproportion of our work is dedicated to raising consumer awareness about theneed to employ NICEIC registered electricians. Over the last two years we havealso ran several high profile media campaigns including ‘MOT Your Home’ and ‘Don’tTake the P.’
The ‘MOT Your Home’ campaign was a national consumer safety campaignwarning householders about the need to carry out regular checks on their home.
Our ‘Don’t takethe P’ campaign educated homeowners on the importance of carrying outelectrical work in compliance with building regulation Part P. This was anational campaign focusing on the importance of choosing an NICEIC registeredelectrician when carrying out work at home.

I'm wondering why I have not seen any of this in my part of the world .... Contrary to what some folk think we DO have electricity here in Geordieland - and flushing netties too !!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Thank you for your swift reply niceic eng, I appreciate your answer but if I'm honest I've never heard of any of them - but maybe that's just me. There must be less than 5 % of my customers have heard of part p even though you run national campaigns.
Would you say you're failing your members?.

No he would not .... he values his job too much !!!

 

[Des 56]

There is a German word that sums up the engineers responses and the organisations involved
Although I applaud him for coming on here



They are worthy of little comment from me, other than

SPIEL

It's unfortunately one talent they have in abundance,it's such a shame they have taken so little notice of some very real concerns by the sparks in the field
Par for the course would be the appropriate saying

 

[Geordie Spark]

There is a German word that sums up the engineers responses and the organisations involved
Although I applaud him for coming on here



They are worthy of little comment from me, other than

SPIEL

It's unfortunately one talent they have in abundance,it's such a shame they have taken so little notice of some very real concerns by the sparks in the field
Par for the course would be the appropriate saying

He is only obeying orders mein Herr !!! :wink_smile:

 

[Octopus]

So when are thte NICEIC et all going to do ANYTHING about rogue members (and I don't mean people using the brand logo)/poor workmanship.

Don't say that its the client that needs to complain because 99.9% of clients don't have a clue whats right and wrong - YOUR inspectors should be available to inspect jobs at random, especially if they are tipped off about poor workmanship by others.

 

[Geordie Spark]

So when are thte NICEIC et all going to do ANYTHING about rogue members (and I don't mean people using the brand logo)/poor workmanship.

Don't say that its the client that needs to complain because 99.9% of clients don't have a clue whats right and wrong - YOUR inspectors should be available to inspect jobs at random, especially if they are tipped off about poor workmanship by others.

Aye, but that would mean they have to get off their backsides and DO something - which would cost them money.

 

[Octopus]

Aye, but that would mean they have to get off their backsides and DO something - which would cost them money.

For the members who have sailed through their annual assessments they should be allowed a 2 year reassessment - and the "other" years spare days could then be used visiting clients to see "suspect" jobs.

I reakon that most customers wouldn't mind this sort of "visit".

 

[BlueToBits]

I think a reality check is in order here. The NICEIC ECA NAPIT et al are competing businesses, not regulatory bodies. They, like us, are here to make a profit. It's not their fault, it's what the government decided when they introduced PP. This NICEIC/ECA business partnership is a shrewd move, which, if it comes off will significantly strengthen their position and go a significant way to squeezing out their competitors. If the industry wants to replace these businesses with one regulatory body then it should lobby the likes of parliament, IET, BSi and possibly ESC. An independent would need to come forward to spearhead such a campaign. A scheme operator would never do this as to do so would be to sign their own death warrant.To be successful, the campaign would need irrefutable headline stats showing that the present system was not working.

If the NICEIC and ECA had partnered 20 years ago the industry would probably by now have one single compulsory regulatory body and no part P.

 

[AP Electrical]

I think a reality check is in order here. The NICEIC ECA NAPIT et al are competing businesses, not regulatory bodies. They, like us, are here to make a profit. It's not their fault, it's what the government decided when they introduced PP. This NICEIC/ECA business partnership is a shrewd move, which, if it comes off will significantly strengthen their position and go a significant way to squeezing out their competitors. If the industry wants to replace these businesses with one regulatory body then it should lobby the likes of parliament, IET, BSi and possibly ESC. An independent would need to come forward to spearhead such a campaign. A scheme operator would never do this as to do so would be to sign their own death warrant.To be successful, the campaign would need irrefutable headline stats showing that the present system was not working.

If the NICEIC and ECA had partnered 20 years ago the industry would probably by now have one single compulsory regulatory body and no part P.

While I agree with your point it doesn't detract from the fact they them selfs are part of the problem. They talk about great standards etc but as we all know there's plenty of competant scheme members who are incapable of doing the job but are assessed as competant every year. For these two to come together and say we're going to sort this mess out is nothing but comical. They have in part helped to devalue the industry through greed, and now stand in front of the gov committee proclaiming we're the guys to sort this..... Crazy dayz

 

[Knobhead]

Re: "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"".

Could you post a link to these, this is the first that I as a householder have heard of it. If the promotion of you're selective register is to be promoted on the same level, it will be as I said in my first post on this subject, totaly unheard of outside the electrical contracting industry.
By selective I mean you will only promote paid up members of your club. As to the competence of those people I'll keep my peace.

I personally don’t think it’s possible for an organisation that is driven purely for monetary reasons and that doesn’t represent all electricians to run a bi-partisan safety register. Only a truly independent body can do this.

This independent body would need the power to control the minimum qualification level to ensure the electrician is safe to undertake potentially dangerous work in a customer’s property. This would be the death knell for all the current schemes as they would be superfluous to requirements.

You seem a good chap, but you have to sing whatever song your paymasters tell you. I would dearly like to know you’re personal views in light of the comments made here. Comments by many who are members of your particular scheme.

 

[ezzzekiel]

as Tony states
Re: "MOT your home" and "Don't take the "P"". i as a member of the pulic and an electrician have never heard of any of these campaings and if i was to mention partp to anyone other than an electrician they wouldnt know the foggiest

 

[malcolmsanford]

I've deliberately backed off of this debate mainly due to the fact that I have and do care passionately about my trade.

My trade has given me a good life style, I can't say that I've enjoyed every minute of it, but I have in the whole loved it. I have met fantastic people, been challenged nearly every day of my working life and being in the industry has defined me.

40 odd years ago I left school and was signed onto a JIB apprenticeship and the number on my deeds was 018........ etc so I was pretty much one of the first.

The then NICEIC was the only real player on the block, and in those days they were a charity, they may still have this status I know not. But they were in essence guardians of our trade. The NICEIC name was synonymous with quality and standards and respected.

I know that nothing, especially in the work place lasts forever, but I'm sorry to say that this really is no longer the case. I have no problem with a company making profits, but in making these profits companies often and do have to make decisions, take a course of action that is solely beneficial to them and can be at costs and this I believe as happened.

I would dearly love to know if the NICEIC/ESC/ELECSA truly believes that these DI courses are producing excellent standards within our industry. If they truly believe that an account in March can be a competent electrician in April, I'm sure we will never get a full answer to this.

I wonder though if this new alliance would transfer some of this money back into full training.

Could there be a scheme such as the Certsure Apprenticeship Scheme (CAS)? After all they have a ready made partner in apprenticeships that they could partner up with and who would I'm sure be able to input 40 odd years of experience to assist them .....the JIB

All it would need is for Certsure to encourage and contribute to a company to take young guys on. Perhaps set up a trust or foundation to pay a percentage of an apprentices costs for a 4 yr period, they could set up the total, say a start of figure of 2000 places a year and take it from there.

Surely doing something like this will pay more than just lip service to the sermon of "We are trying to raise standards" it would be physical tangible evidence that these are not hollow words spun out of making a profit, but they do in fact have the best interests of the industry at heart.

Times are truly hard, but even in hard times someone, somebody or some organisation must make decisions that will ensure the survival and the standards of the industry