EIC and EICR issues

[Googers]

Hi folks, first time poster and soon-to-be landlord's assistant (letting my partner's property out now that she's moved in). We've just had a new consumer unit installed and an EIC produced for the works as required, and the electrician told us he checked every socket and circuit as part of his works - even replaced two faulty sockets during his checks.

Given that he's tested everything (wording from our invoice below states as such) we are wondering if the EIC can be used in place of an EICR. As it's likened to an MOT, you wouldn't MOT a new car, but then a new CU and circuit checks is more of an engine replacement than a new car, yadda yadda...

Invoice states:
1 NEW FUSE BOARD . Replace old fuse board . Supply and fit new 10-way RCBO fuse board with SPD Surge protection . Upgrade meter tails to 25mm . Upgrade main earth to 16mm . Upgrade gas earth bonding to 10mm . Upgrade water earth bonding to 10mm if the existing 6mm is not connected . Test all circuits . Issue Electrical Certificate*

*t's and c's

Anyway, we are supposed to have tenants moving in tomorrow but as we only have the EIC and not the EICR, the agent isn't budging. Has anyone got any experience with using an EIC and supporting info to show that all areas have been checked, or are we going to have to try and arrange an additional check that will delay the tenancy?

Cheers!

 

[ipf]

You shouldn't have the slightest problem if a full test and inspection on the existing installation has been carried out. An installation certificate more than covers an EICR. All components of an EICR should have been taken into account as part of the EIC, if it has been carried out to the full, as you state and, if this is the case, the section stating when the next inspection is required gives you your answer.
The agent is what he is.....a house salesman....and is ignorant to the facts.

 

[Risteard]

You shouldn't have the slightest problem if a full test and inspection on the existing installation has been carried out. An installation certificate more than covers an EICR. All components of an EICR should have been taken into account as part of the EIC, if it has been carried out to the full, as you state and, if this is the case, the section stating when the next inspection is required gives you your answer.
The agent is what he is.....a house salesman....and is ignorant to the facts.

I'm sorry but that isn't correct. The certificate only certifies the work carried out, i.e. replacement of the distribution board. Other than for a new installation (including full rewire) it cannot substitute an Electrical Installation Condition Report and rightly so.

 

[cliffed]

You shouldn't have the slightest problem if a full test and inspection on the existing installation has been carried out. An installation certificate more than covers an EICR. All components of an EICR should have been taken into account as part of the EIC, if it has been carried out to the full, as you state and, if this is the case, the section stating when the next inspection is required gives you your answer.
The agent is what he is.....a house salesman....and is ignorant to the facts.

I'm sorry but that isn't correct. The certificate only certifies the work carried out, i.e. replacement of the distribution board. Other than for a new installation (including full rewire) it cannot substitute an Electrical Installation Condition Report and rightly so.

He does state the premises have been fully tested,so a EIC would be issued I think,he’s also got the EICR too.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to ask the electrician who changed the CU to do an EICR?

 

[cliffed]

Wouldn’t it be easier and cheaper to ask the electrician who changed the CU to do an EICR?

if you change a DB then the relevant tests have to be made,& a. EIC issued I do believe.

 

[Taylortwocities]

if you change a DB then the relevant tests have to be made,& a. EIC issued I do believe.

The OP has an EIC for the CU change.
What I (tried to) suggest is to have the electrician who changed the CU carry out an EICR. He can almost do this from his armchair, having tested and inspected the installation already.

 

[SJD]

An EIC does not cover everything that is required for an EICR, but the overlap is so great that there is not too much more work to be able to issue an EICR. For example, inspecting the connections to a sample of switches and sockets.

Doing a lot of new consumer units and EICRs for a letting agent, I typically allow an extra hour for the extra work (that hour doesn't include any remedials), and then issue both the EIC and the EICR at the same time. This is far more cost effective (for the customer) compared to doing them separately.

 

[Googers]

Thanks all, it sounds like I'll need the electrician to provide a further certificate, which may prove difficult given that when I asked about an EICR I was told (by the electrician) that the EIC is better. Looks like the tenants aren't moving in tomorrow ?

 

[Googers]

The OP has an EIC for the CU change.
What I (tried to) suggest is to have the electrician who changed the CU carry out an EICR. He can almost do this from his armchair, having tested and inspected the installation already.

Aye that's what we had hoped, but the electrician was very defensive and keen to push blame on the letting agents for not understanding what an EIC is rather than offering to follow up with an EICR. I'll give him a call today and ask if he's willing to help out but after the phone call I had last night I doubt it. Shame because the rest of his work was stellar!

 

[SJD]

Aye that's what we had hoped, but the electrician was very defensive and keen to push blame on the letting agents for not understanding what an EIC is rather than offering to follow up with an EICR. I'll give him a call today and ask if he's willing to help out but after the phone call I had last night I doubt it. Shame because the rest of his work was stellar!

It sound to me that this electrician doesn't really understand the different purposes of the two documents, and doesn't understand either the law relating to rented property.

Or perhaps just doesn't like doing EICRs.

 

[Googers]

It sound to me that this electrician doesn't really understand the different purposes of the two documents, and doesn't understand either the law relating to rented property.

Or perhaps just doesn't like doing EICRs.

He's been working for some 20 odd years so I suspect it's a matter of the legalities having only recently changed and the really crap Government guidance being a bit vague. Hey ho! I've asked him for some further help but we'll see what happens.

Either way, turns out the Gas Safe certificate won't be available until Monday anyway so now I need to find out what that's going to cost me in terms of breaching the moving-in date on the contract. *sigh*

 

[westward10]

If I had done the work recently I would happily provide an EICR free of charge. If the place has been uninhabited since the works carried out it probably wouldn't need a site visit to visually check for any sign of damage. The worst he should demand is an admin fee.

 

[dodger421]

Maybe I’m being stupid, but the government guidance in section 6 does seem to make clear an EIC is acceptable?

Now yes, it does give two specific examples of newly built or completely rewired, but surely if the EIC includes the entire installation in its schedules of inspection and test then it meets the criteria of Section 6 and a CU change most certainly does involve inspection and test of the entire installation.

Tin Hat on.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector

“What about new build properties or new electrical installations?​

If a property is newly built or has been completely rewired, it should have an Electrical Installation Certificate known as an EIC.

Landlords can provide a copy of the EIC to tenants and, if requested, the local authority. The landlord will then not be required to carry out further checks or provide a report for 5 years after the EIC has been issued, as long as they have complied with their duty or duties under the Regulations”

 

[Ian1981]

The EIC in this case relates to the CU change, nothing more so it cannot replace an EICR which covers the fixed installation unless otherwise stated on the extent of the installation covered by this report.
A new build should have had initial verification before being put into service so should be compliant to when it was installed, so that is entirely different.