EICR coding................

[westward10]

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiidiculous

OP asked for opinions, that is mine. I do not work on "not likely" and so forth.

 

[Risteard]

It’s acceptable to come off the lights which normally are wired in 1mm so not convinced.

If you come off the lights then they are connected to a lighting circuit, and 1mm^2 is therefore permissible. It's only if you utilise a dedicated circuit for the smoke detectors that it would be prohibited. (Yes, I do realise that it isn't any less safe.)

 

[Ian1981]

If you come off the lights then they are connected to a lighting circuit, and 1mm^2 is therefore permissible. It's only if you utilise a dedicated circuit for the smoke detectors that it would be prohibited. (Yes, I do realise that it isn't any less safe.)

Makes zero sense in my opinion and as you’ve stated it’s no less safe.
It should perhaps say non lighting circuits must be 1.5mm minimum (power is too vague in my opinion)
I’m not going to lose sleep over it tho.
I’m sure this particular table is going to be tweaked when the 18 th edition is released

As a side note this has never been picked up by any of the companies yearly NICEIC assessments that 1mm had been used to wire smoke detectors on a dedicated circuit.
Perhaps if they had pulled it then maybe I’d change the CSA

 

[Risteard]

I suspect the reasons for moving away from 1mm^2 are lack of mechanical robustness of such a small cable, and of course harmonisation. (Much/most of the rest of the world does not permit 1mm^2 conductors.)

I presume the exemption for lighting circuits was a first step towards outlawing it entirely.

 

[Andy78]

Thanks for the input guys, definite food for thought.

I have often thought that some of the rules in the regs do not make much sense with regard to safety when they are permitted in slightly differing arrangements.

 

[bigspark17]

How is the boiler wired in 1mm on 6A ocpd to a sfcu most likely at 3A dangerous or aggainst regs?

 

[Risteard]

How is the boiler wired in 1mm on 6A ocpd to a sfcu most likely at 3A dangerous or aggainst regs?

I'm not sure that anyone suggested that it was dangerous.

As for against Regulations, if it is not connected to a lighting circuit then it is quite clear that it is contrary to BS7671.

 

[Ian1981]

I don’t think it is particularly clear to be honest
‘Power’ go figure

 

[sparksburnout]

I suspect the reasons for moving away from 1mm^2 are lack of mechanical robustness of such a small cable, and of course harmonisation. (Much/most of the rest of the world does not permit 1mm^2 conductors.)

I presume the exemption for lighting circuits was a first step towards outlawing it entirely.

I don't understand this. What first steps towards outlawing it?? We are supposed to be saving resources, most lighting circuits being installed now will never take anywhere near the loading of traditional ones. I would never dream of putting anything other than 1.0mm for most lighting circuits these days, why would you? Whats mechanical robustness got to do with it? And as a footnote, who cares what the rest of the world does, whats that got to do with ANYTHING??

 

[sparksburnout]

See I read it as power such as you can use 1.5mm to say feed a single socket outlet for a washer fed of a 13amp switch fused spur as the max load allowed is 13 amps slowed by the bs 1362 fuse which the 1.5mm twin say buried in the wall will happily take.
This arrangement is also shown in appendix 15 (informative only)
That to me is power or an immersion heater, something that actually will pull a few amps at least, which a domestic boiler won’t even pull 1amp.
Of course my interpretation is maybe incorrect, which would mean all them security alarm circuits and smoke alarm circuits I’ve installed over the years using 1mm twin are also wrong
Whoops!

Would anybody install a smokes circuit in anything other than 1.0mm?? Surely not.

 

[Ian1981]

Would anybody install a smokes circuit in anything other than 1.0mm?? Surely not.

It’s a nightmare trying to install 1.5 twin and 1.5mm 3 core in aico smoke detectors I can tell you that!
1.5mm was specified for lighting and smoke detectors when I used to do council houses for Newcastle

 

[elsparko]

I've been and done an inspection on a rented property today. Normally I am pretty sure of myself with codes but caught myself second guessing today so thought it might help freshen my head up to run a couple of points by the forum for opinion.

First one is a spur from a 2.5mm 32A ring final. It leaves the MCB in 2.5mm and feeds a single socket for a washing machine under a counter, then also an above counter SFCU for a kitchen extract fan. Seeing as this would not be likely to be subject to overload due to the socket being used for a dedicated purpose and the total load being limited to less than that of the cable CCC I was thinking a C3.

A similar issue with the boiler feed. It is protected by a 6A MCB but is only in 1mm cable. As the potential load is limited I'm thinking only a C3 for the cable not being the minimum 1.5mm required for power circuits.

Thanks for your thoughts.

what is the rating of the washing machine? is it an industrial/commercial jobby or domestic? a c2 or c1 is something that cannot go ignored, id c3 it, advise correct mcb for whatever is suitable for the rating of the washing machine.

a boiler will rarely draw 5 amps, depending on length of the run from db to boiler would determine wether or not its a c2 , if its at the other end of the house 1.5mm, if its quite close to the db we used to use 1mm, but im interested in finding out if what you say is true because if so i can consider today a school day, ive learned something new

 

[Risteard]

I don't understand this. What first steps towards outlawing it??

Banning it for everything other than lighting circuits was a first step in my opinion.

We are supposed to be saving resources

And larger cross-sectional areas contribute to fewer losses in the cable and thus conserving energy.

I would never dream of putting anything other than 1.0mm for most lighting circuits these days, why would you?

Because 1mm^2 isn't available here. No wholesaler stocks it. To specially order it would cost me more than I can get 1.5mm^2 for.

Whats mechanical robustness got to do with it?

Quite a lot. If a cable will be damaged installing it then it will not be safe.

And as a footnote, who cares what the rest of the world does, whats that got to do with ANYTHING??

I clearly stated that I believed that it was a step towards harmonisation, so that was the context I mentioned it in. What the rest of the world does is entirely relevant to harmonising standards.

 

[elsparko]

It’s a nightmare trying to install 1.5 twin and 1.5mm 3 core in aico smoke detectors I can tell you that!
1.5mm was specified for lighting and smoke detectors when I used to do council houses for Newcastle

not if you shape and connect the cables before screwing the base up if its the feed and some dope has put the feed in with 2x 3c+e 1.5mm, thats why i prefer to work alone lol, little things like that make a small job so much more difficult than it needs to be

 

[sparksburnout]

what is the rating of the washing machine? is it an industrial/commercial jobby or domestic? a c2 or c1 is something that cannot go ignored, id c3 it, advise correct mcb for whatever is suitable for the rating of the washing machine.

a boiler will rarely draw 5 amps, depending on length of the run from db to boiler would determine wether or not its a c2 , if its at the other end of the house 1.5mm, if its quite close to the db we used to use 1mm, but im interested in finding out if what you say is true because if so i can consider today a school day, ive learned something new

I think we have come to the conclusion it is not a C2. How big is this house that you envisage it will be at the other end of? As has been said, we are talking about a boiler, on it's own circuit, in 1mm protected by a 6A OCPD and then a 3A fuse. How can it be dangerous (C2)?