UK EICR Done, New CU Required. Am I being taken for a ride?

[HairBear]

Hi all, am new here.

My wife and I let a small house which requires an EICR due to the new regs. The management agent organised for an electrician to carry out the EICR and quote for the remedial work. They have come back saying that a new consumer unit is required for various C2's, some of which, even I can tell, are -------s (eg. a blanking plate with a groove down the middle being grounds for an IP rating C2). My question is, can anyone wiser and more knowledgeable than me tell me whether I should accept the new CU or push back on this? There are some C2's which I'm not clear about and if the CU is required, then so be it.

Please see attached EICR - excuse the poor quality of pages 1 and 3, I had to do some jiggery pokery to redact them.

 

[Pete999]

Now the 'Up Lights' have been tested it may be a

To put all that right, including a new CU, for that price is not bad at all. Especially in the South.

For peace of mind, I get it done.

So what you are saying is. that anyone that has a property that has a plastic CU and was compliant with BS 7671 at the time of the installation, needs to spend money unnecessarily and upgrade the CU to a metal one, am I correct ? even though at the time of the install everything complied with the Regs current at that time? Better get mine changed then, and make a fortune on my estate advising people of what you are saying. I would think seriously about what you are alluding to. It's almost the same as saying when my House was wired it complied with the Regs current at that time but things have moved on and the regs have changed, better get it rewired.

 

[radiohead]

So what you are saying is. that anyone that has a property that has a plastic CU and was compliant with BS 7671 at the time of the installation, needs to spend money unnecessarily and upgrade the CU to a metal one, am I correct ? even though at the time of the install everything complied with the Regs current at that time? Better get mine changed then, and make a fortune on my estate advising people of what you are saying.

Or you could advise an up front RCD which will disconnect everything in the event of a single fault. Great idea.

 

[DPG]

So what you are saying is. that anyone that has a property that has a plastic CU and was compliant with BS 7671 at the time of the installation, needs to spend money unnecessarily and upgrade the CU to a metal one, am I correct ? even though at the time of the install everything complied with the Regs current at that time? Better get mine changed then, and make a fortune on my estate advising people of what you are saying. I would think seriously about what you are alluding to. It's almost the same as saying when my House was wired it complied with the Regs current at that time but things have moved on and the regs have changed, better get it rewired.

I thought he was agreeing with the C3, not saying that it must be changed??

 

[Pete999]

I thought he was agreeing with the C3, not saying that it must be changed??

If I misread it I apologise, but it seems to the uninitiated but you say he says a C3 but gives it a lesser code C3 confused dot com, sorry to be subjective mate

 

[telectrix]

think the reason he wants to change the CU is that it has a big hole in the top, compromising the IP ratingand the replacement would clear up a couple of the C2's, like RCD protection for bathroom circuits.

 

[GBDamo]

So what you are saying is. that anyone that has a property that has a plastic CU and was compliant with BS 7671 at the time of the installation, needs to spend money unnecessarily and upgrade the CU to a metal one, am I correct ? even though at the time of the install everything complied with the Regs current at that time? Better get mine changed then, and make a fortune on my estate advising people of what you are saying. I would think seriously about what you are alluding to. It's almost the same as saying when my House was wired it complied with the Regs current at that time but things have moved on and the regs have changed, better get it rewired.

The first line of that post was from a reply I deleted in zwhich I was going to list all the faults and how they could be rectified and at what price, probably £300+ worth of work.

Then I saw the price and at that price it is a really good idea to go ahead and replace the CU.

Not at all that anything on the list warrants a new CU individually.

 

[Midwest]

By CU not fire rated, I assume it's a plastic CU? Was the electrician a member of one of the CP Schemes NIEEIC or similar?

Looks like a comprehensive report, never did EICR's, so others will comment on that.

Me personally, if I was the landlord, I would replace the CU, with something that provides RCD protection for the circuits on the non RCD side, and split up the circuits on the RCD side. It wouldn't cost you a lot of money in the big scheme of things, and provide a safer installation for your tenants IMO. I would also add the surge protection, and the other C2's & 3's.

PS, you don't have to employ the same contractor who did the EICR, to do the new works.

 

[Midwest]

The report cost me £175 so I’m glad it seems comprehensive

The MA says they can’t actually find anyone else to quote or even to do another EICR. Sounds like an excuse to me, but with COVID and the new regs it may be true.

Thanks for the advice too!

You've paid for a report, it is what it is?

 

[Midwest]

I would question this chaps opinions and and ask him to show you where in the regulations it says that a pre existing CU that is plastic contravenes the regs, remember the regs are not retrospective, if the CU was compliant at the installation it may only need minor modifications, like an up front RCD to cover the bathroom supplementary bonding issue.

Don't know f its correct, but this 'chap' has quoted numerous regulations in his/her report?

 

[Dave OCD]

The list of limitations is a masterclass in @rse covering.

 

[Burtones]

It looks like most of the items given 'lim' on this report are things that you couldn't confirm visually in a house to give a tick anyway and look pretty similar to the limitations used where I work- do other people agree or disagree?

 

[Dartlec]

Easycert default observations strike again - I always (when I remember) change them as it's not helpful to say 'For cables concealed in walls is recommended for improvement' as it doesn't really make things clear for any non-electrician reading it. Neither does the 'non brand mcb overrated for cable size' (presumably the 40A protection for 6mm cable to the Hob.

It does look like a fairly comprehensive report compared to some I've seen - and it doesn't have any of the usual signs of a rushed or poorly finished one with inappropriate ticks.

I might question a couple of the C2s, but without seeing them it's hard to pass clear judgement.

But since this is the Internet, I'll do it anyway!

- Non IP rated spotlights seems harsh as a C2 - I wouldn't mind betting that they are actually above 2.25m and outside the zones anyway... Not sure what the 65mm cutout comment is referring to?

- Slotted Blanks as a C2 seems dubious - they appear to be in place and not broken.

- If the Water bond has been verified, then it's not a code - it has been verified, that's the point of verifying it! At most I'd say a comment stating that the clamp can't be visually inspected.

Couple of further thoughts though:

The MCBs look like LeGrand to me, in which case they are still available. They've been used by Barratt in
2 flats I've seen recently from around the same era, though in a Tenby board.

So it might be possible to update it to a dual RCD board without replacing it, and fit trunking above to cover the apparently big hole.

However, it may also be a good opportunity to install a new board and upgrade your protection. I would clarify that the quote is not just for a cheap metal dual RCD board from Screwfix.

Presumably since it's been raised, the new board would include Surge Protection - If it is also RCBOs, then that is a good price. Worth checking that they will be "Type A" RCBOs or RCDs as that will likely become the norm very soon and might even end up as a code next time round if not.

 

[Dartlec]

It looks like most of the items given 'lim' on this report are things that you couldn't confirm visually in a house to give a tick anyway and look pretty similar to the limitations used where I work- do other people agree or disagree?

They seem pretty reasonable to me in a domestic EICR setting when someone is living there. It is often simply not practicably to disconnect every load. The 250V IR test surprised me. I often LIM L-N IR testing on certain circuits, but if testing L&N to E then always test at 500V (though always test at 250V first to check for a missed load)

In fact the only slightly suspicious thing about this EICR for me is that the IR were all >200. In an empty flat that's quite likely as wiring that old shouldn't have degraded - but in a lived in property where you can't disconnect everything it's rare to get that on lighting especially. Either all the lightswitches were off and lots of the cable wasn't tested, or they were able to remove every single lamp which seems unlikely.

 

[Sparkingmad]

Bonding if he has verified it by test meter regardless of being able to see it he has confirmed it so no code required.
RCD for fault protection C2 yet RCD for additional protection eg cables buried in walls less than 50mm or in walls with metal parts etc no code. Has he verified depth of cables or metal stud work
IP rating of board if it has a hole in the top surface greater than 1mm then C2,
Regarding blanks if they are fitted and prevent access of finger to live parts then no code needed, if missing then automatic C2. Has he actually determined if there was supplementary bonding by means of testing, was supplementary bonding required is pipe work copper or plastic?
Does the installation require SPD’s has he done a risk assessment?
If only testing insulation resistance to earth with line and neutral connected together why is he only testing at 250V?
Would be interesting to see if down lights are fire rated or have fire hoods fitted as well?
I would like to get a comparable quote for just altering board to RCBO’s on M/Sw side. Fitting a blanking piece to cover hole on top of board. Does his quote also include changing down lights in bathroom to led ip65?
what size is main fuse in cutout?

 

[DPG]

The slotted blanks thing is interesting. I can't see a reason for a C2 there. Was anything mentioned about this?