EICR Failed - Open circuit / No continuity

[isaact4569]

Hi,

I had an EICR done and it failed on one item which was a C2 and that was in our utility room. From what I was told there is an open circuit and no continuity. It took a long while but after questions asked, it was ascertained that the previous owner had an old boiler in the utility room which was repositioned to a different room. The wires inside the walls were not terminated correctly. Now heres the issue. The electrician wants to remove floorboards in the bedroom above it to attempt to rectify this. Problem is the flooring in the bedroom is chipboards and there are glued all around the sides so they are not tongue and groove. 8 years ago a plumber tried to remove one for some works needed doing and it took 30 minutes to remove one with a crow bar, hammer and a lot of force. The electrician said he will use oscillating multi tool but of course the risk is cutting into the joists and the pipework are very close to the chipboards. He does not want to cut into the wall in the utility room because he said he doesn't feel comfortable patching up and rectifying plasterboards. My question is for something like this where we know the wire is behind the wall, does the wire just need to be terminated or put back into the ring circuit? Can a junction terminal box be used and the wire parked inside the wall?

Isaac

 

[PS Electrics]

It is your house if you don't want the floor up and feel it can be fixed by opening the wall then make an arrangement for some else to make good. Or hire an Electrician that will do what you want and can make good. This is providing of course this can be fixed by opening up the wall.

 

[isaact4569]

Sure. What happens to the wire once it has been located? Is it taken out completely from where ever it is spurring from or do they put a terminal junction box in to terminate the wire?

 

[PS Electrics]

Sure. What happens to the wire once it has been located? Is it taken out completely from where ever it is spurring from or do they put a terminal junction box in to terminate the wire?

I didn't comment on what would be done because I didn't fully understand from what you have said how this is wired. I take it the circuit was extended from where the old boiler was to where the new boiler is and that perhaps you have lost cpc continuity? Not Live or Neutral because the boiler would not work and you would have known that? Then it would just be a case of locating the join and putting it right. Chances are the connection was not made in a maintenance free way. If I have that incorrect please advise.

 

[davesparks]

he doesn't feel comfortable patching up and rectifying plasterboards.

That's a very weird excuse, patching up the wall isn't really his problem, that's up to you or whoever you hire to make good to the wall after he has finished.

My question is for something like this where we know the wire is behind the wall, does the wire just need to be terminated or put back into the ring circuit? Can a junction terminal box be used and the wire parked inside the wall?

You haven't told us what the problem actually is, but I would hazard a guess that it is a lack of continuity on a ring final circuit. If this is right then the two cables will need to be joined together to reinstate continuity of the circuit, this will need to be in some form of joint.

 

[UNG]

It is very easy to get access under chipboard floorboards using a Solid Board Cutter or a Trend Routabout

 

[littlespark]

Has testing identified which length of cable has the problem?

It should be able to be narrowed down to between two points. ( this can take a little time)

It may be found that the break is simply a loose connection at one of these points rather than heresay about where there may, or may not have been a boiler once upon a time.

They might lift the floor and find nothing.


Not ideal for a utility room with high powered appliances, but if the ring can be split to remove the faulty section, and there’s a spare way in the board… you could create 2x 20A radial circuits instead of the one 32A (assuming these sizes as standard in domestic)

 

[isaact4569]

Apologises so on the report it says .... C2 for Line/Neutral / CPC conductors for final ring circuit - no continuity of conductors. Reg ref: 526.6; 643.2.1.

The old boiler was taken out and the gas engineer just left the wire in the wall and plastered over it. The electrician seems to think it is connected from the bedroom upstairs sockets which is why he wants to rip out the floorboards.

Technically can putting a wire cap or terminal block be acceptable in order to terminate the wire correctly thats buried in the wall or not acceptable enough to clear C2 code in report?

 

[PS Electrics]

Apologises so on the report it says .... C2 for Line/Neutral / CPC conductors for final ring circuit - no continuity of conductors. Reg ref: 526.6; 643.2.1.

The old boiler was taken out and the gas engineer just left the wire in the wall and plastered over it. The electrician seems to think it is connected from the bedroom upstairs sockets which is why he wants to rip out the floorboards.

Technically can putting a wire cap or terminal block be acceptable in order to terminate the wire correctly thats buried in the wall or not acceptable enough to clear C2 code in report?

As littlespark said you might be chasing shadows with the ends plastered in the wall. A quick way to fix this since you have a broken ring is to derate the protective device as littlespark also mentioned and convert it to 2 radials. But consideration needs to be made on the loads connected. If you do have a lot of loads on that circuit then if you have a spare way you could utilize that to make 2 separate radials.

It is not acceptable to terminate cables that are buried in a wall and not accessible with a wire cap or terminal block. It must be a maintenance free termination, though personally I wouldn't leave a redundant live end in a wall like that, if it is live that is.

 

[DPG]

As littlespark said you might be chasing shadows with the ends plastered in the wall. A quick way to fix this since you have a broken ring is to derate the protective device as littlespark also mentioned and convert it to 2 radials. But consideration needs to be made on the loads connected. If you do have a lot of loads on that circuit then if you have a spare way you could utilize that to make 2 separate radials.

It is not acceptable to terminate cables that are buried in a wall and not accessible with a wire cap or terminal block. It must be a maintenance free termination, though personally I wouldn't leave a redundant live end in a wall like that, if it is live that is.

Bear in mind cables should be in prescribed zones as well. Often forgotten when things are removed.

 

[davesparks]

A quick way to fix this since you have a broken ring is to derate the protective device as littlespark also mentioned and convert it to 2 radials.

But that still requires you to find where/how the ring has become disconnected and make that safe, at which point you might as well just repair the ring of possible.

Taking one circuit which has unterminated cables buried in a wall and converting it into two circuits with unterminated cables buried in a wall doesn't make it better.

 

[PS Electrics]

But that still requires you to find where/how the ring has become disconnected and make that safe, at which point you might as well just repair the ring of possible.

Taking one circuit which has unterminated cables buried in a wall and converting it into two circuits with unterminated cables buried in a wall doesn't make it better.

How so? We would find the last points of each leg and disconnect them, I didn't expect to explain the whole process!

 

[isaact4569]

Just another thought - can a new plug socket be installed to the outside wall (garden) IP rated one and the new plug socket spurring off the buried cable so that it is brought back into the ring circuit?

 

[PS Electrics]

Bear in mind cables should be in prescribed zones as well. Often forgotten when things are removed.

If <50mm so might not apply here as the OP stated it was plasterboard so not chased. This can only be assessed by actually seeing it.

 

[BDElectrical]

Could someone please advise which box on the inspection schedule an open line conductor fault found on an EICR should be noted in eg 5.0 - 5.21? (Final circuits) As I recently failed my 2391 after putting the C2 code in the incorrect box as non seemed to be directly obvious / relevant. Thanks