EICR test failed due to no RCD on smoke detector, lighting, door bell, security alarm

[missp82]

Hi, I recently did an EICR test on my flat built in 2008. The engineer was in my flat for less than 10 mins, he was asking me irrelevant questions as in whether I am renting and that is interested to rent. In the end he said everything looks fine and will get the report in 24 hours.
The report came up as "unsatisfactory" and "poor condition" mainly due to no RCD on smoke detector, lighting, door bell and security alarm which has been disconnected for years. They followed that up with a large quote to change the entire consumer unit.
I am attaching the observations section and photos of my consumer unit and fuse board. I am not a professional landlord, I just feel there is something wrong. I have been searching online and reading the best practice guide and this states a lot of these should have been C3s. Can I have your opinions before I proceed with changing the entire unit? They also said even if I do what they suggest that there is a 50% chance that the unit might trip and they will need to investigate the wiring. I have disputed the findings and they removed some of the points which they called "typos" (for example the outdoors point is totally irrelevant, my flat doesn't even have outdoors space).

 

[littlespark]

less than 10 minutes? total cowboy.

A decent EICR should take 3 to 4 hours on site.... removing random sockets and switches around the property, taking readings with their testers.

Rented or not, a property should be tested to the same standards....

As explained on the last page of the report (if they gave you one) a C1 is "immediatly dangerous" A C2 is "potentially dangerous" and C3, "improvement recomended"

The lack of RCD on those circuits is not a C2.

 

[Tom256]

Hi, I recently did an EICR test on my flat built in 2008. The engineer was in my flat for less than 10 mins, he was asking me irrelevant questions as in whether I am renting and that is interested to rent. In the end he said everything looks fine and will get the report in 24 hours.
The report came up as "unsatisfactory" and "poor condition" mainly due to no RCD on smoke detector, lighting, door bell and security alarm which has been disconnected for years. They followed that up with a large quote to change the entire consumer unit.
I am attaching the observations section and photos of my consumer unit and fuse board. I am not a professional landlord, I just feel there is something wrong. I have been searching online and reading the best practice guide and this states a lot of these should have been C3s. Can I have your opinions before I proceed with changing the entire unit? They also said even if I do what they suggest that there is a 50% chance that the unit might trip and they will need to investigate the wiring. I have disputed the findings and they removed some of the points which they called "typos" (for example the outdoors point is totally irrelevant, my flat doesn't even have outdoors space).

View attachment 119314

View attachment 119315

View attachment 119316

From your post I suspect you are aware of the 'trend' in the industry for 'EICR's' [and I use that term here only for a reference to your post] that are nothing more than a foot in the door to obtain work. Fraudulent sheets of paper.
From your post I suspect it will not come as a surprise to you to hear that as he was in the flat for less than 10 minutes he has NOT carried out an EICR. He is looking for remedial work.

What happens is they quote from the current edition of the regulations that which fits - the low hanging fruit - if you will that can be used with slight of hand to justify their position. "well you see Miss, regulation blah blah blah says you need 'X' and 'Y'" "would love it to be not the case yet look read it for yourself"

One key paragraph that is never mentioned, however, in this is at the very start of the current edition of the wiring regulations. Let me quote it for you:

'The Regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installations, also additions and alterations to existing installations. Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading'

Perhaps you can start by asking against item (1) the question: which Regulation is this observation set against?

I will happily go into more detail as I have time for this 'trend' is something I have no time for. For what it is worth some of those points are nonsense. Others C3.

 

[westward10]

Dare I ask how much you were charged.

 

[Tom256]

Dare I ask how much you were charged.

Yes a very good question

 

[missp82]

Dare I ask how much you were charged.

Lol. The quote was for £770. I talked to another electrician today, he was saying the regulation changes every year or so and you have to comply. His quote was £670

 

[missp82]

From your post I suspect you are aware of the 'trend' in the industry for 'EICR's' [and I use that term here only for a reference to your post] that are nothing more than a foot in the door to obtain work. Fraudulent sheets of paper.
From your post I suspect it will not come as a surprise to you to hear that as he was in the flat for less than 10 minutes he has NOT carried out an EICR. He is looking for remedial work.

What happens is they quote from the current edition of the regulations that which fits - the low hanging fruit - if you will that can be used with slight of hand to justify their position. "well you see Miss, regulation blah blah blah says you need 'X' and 'Y'" "would love it to be not the case yet look read it for yourself"

One key paragraph that is never mentioned, however, in this is at the very start of the current edition of the wiring regulations. Let me quote it for you:

'The Regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installations, also additions and alterations to existing installations. Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the Regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading'

Perhaps you can start by asking against item (1) the question: which Regulation is this observation set against?

I will happily go into more detail as I have time for this 'trend' is something I have no time for. For what it is worth some of those points are nonsense. Others C3.

Exactly what I suspected. Any advice on how to proceed now? I wasn't aware of the "trend" but I am getting to know it now. They keep quoting the following to substantiate their report

As per regulation of IET regulations;

411.3.4 that states that all circuits supplying luminares will be protected by 30mA RCDs

 

[westward10]

Lol. The quote was for £770. I talked to another electrician today, he was saying the regulation changes every year or so and you have to comply. His quote was £670

How much was the EICR?

 

[Tom256]

Lol. The quote was for £770. I talked to another electrician today, he was saying the regulation changes every year or so and you have to comply. His quote was £670

Well he is lying to you. The Regulations do not change every year or so and when they do you DO NOT need to upgrade to fit. Many installations are over 30 years old and are perfectly safe for continued use and would have been installed to prior editions of the wiring regulations. If they say otherwise they will back down if you took their statement to an industry body.
See the quote in my previous post.

Consumer unit changes are the one they all seem to go for as a quick buck, thensuck in air and find more once done.
So where does that leave you? There may or may not be issues that require attention. An EICR would pick up such if carried out with integrity and competence... you don't have either here.

Not all 'Electricians' are worthy of the name.

 

[missp82]

less than 10 minutes? total cowboy.

A decent EICR should take 3 to 4 hours on site.... removing random sockets and switches around the property, taking readings with their testers.

Rented or not, a property should be tested to the same standards....

As explained on the last page of the report (if they gave you one) a C1 is "immediatly dangerous" A C2 is "potentially dangerous" and C3, "improvement recomended"

The lack of RCD on those circuits is not a C2.

I have started a dispute with them through my bank, I don't think they offered the service I paid for. Any advice on how to proceed with this?

 

[Tom256]

Exactly what I suspected. Any advice on how to proceed now? I wasn't aware of the "trend" but I am getting to know it now. They keep quoting the following to substantiate their report

As per regulation of IET regulations;

411.3.4 that states that all circuits supplying luminares will be protected by 30mA RCDs

Yes well refer them to the quote I noted from the introduction to the wiring regulations - page number 4 if it helps them.
They quote from the current edition and not explain that such is not retrospective.

Our posts crossed so following on from my previous. The EICR is a report on the condition of an installation for safe continued use and at this time based on what you have said you do not have such. Therefore if you needed one then you are back to that position where you need an EICR.
Only now you need an EICR carried out by someone experienced and competent.

Of interest may I ask if these people were registered with a trade body and how you came to select them?

 

[missp82]

How much was the EICR?

I paid for gas safety and EICR at the same time, total was £155

 

[missp82]

Yes well refer them to the quote I noted from the introduction to the wiring regulations - page number 4 if it helps them.
They quote from the current edition and not explain that such is not retrospective.

Our posts crossed so following on from my previous. The EICR is a report on the condition of an installation for safe continued use and at this time based on what you have said you do not have such. Therefore if you needed one then you are back to that position where you need an EICR.
Only now you need an EICR carried out by someone experienced and competent.

Of interest may I ask if these people were registered with a trade body and how you came to select them?

I found the extract from the wiring regulations, I will send it to them though I don't think they are interested in what I have to say. They keep repeating the same points (copy / paste email).

I don't know, I guess they are registered. I found them on google, checked their reviews. The second person was recommended to me by the letting agent I signed with. Where can I find an experienced and competent electrician to do the EICR? I am afraid of booking another one in case I get the same issues and they also want to change the entire board

 

[Tom256]

I have started a dispute with them through my bank, I don't think they offered the service I paid for. Any advice on how to proceed with this?

I found the extract from the wiring regulations, I will send it to them though I don't think they are interested in what I have to say. They keep repeating the same points (copy / paste email).

I don't know, I guess they are registered. I found them on google, checked their reviews. The second person was recommended to me by the letting agent I signed with. Where can I find an experienced and competent electrician to do the EICR? I am afraid of booking another one in case I get the same issues and they also want to change the entire board

Enquire if they are registered with a trade body, if so you can take this case up with them.
As I said in my first post in this thread they will always quote from current regulations to justify their quote for the remedial s. However, the Regulations are not retrospective and an installation installed to an earlier edition of the regulations is not in itself unsafe for continued use, thus unsatisfactory.

Regards the need for an EICR. There could be someone on here that folk could recommend. You could contact the NICEIC and explain your situation asking for names of members suitably competent.
Telephone several electrical companies who are with an Industry body and talk to them on how they conduct the EICR. Get their thoughts on coding, the time it will take and how they approach issues such as installations to previous editions. From such you are now better informed to enter into this arrangment. Listen to what they have to say and spot the 'Red Flags'

 

[missp82]

Enquire if they are registered with a trade body, if so you can take this case up with them.
As I said in my first post in this thread they will always quote from current regulations to justify their quote for the remedial s. However, the Regulations are not retrospective and an installation installed to an earlier edition of the regulations is not in itself unsafe for continued use, thus unsatisfactory.

Regards the need for an EICR. There could be someone on here that folk could recommend. You could contact the NICEIC and explain your situation asking for names of members suitably competent.
Telephone several electrical companies who are with an Industry body and talk to them on how they conduct the EICR. Get their thoughts on coding, the time it will take and how they approach issues such as installations to previous editions. From such you are now better informed to enter into this arrangment. Listen to what they have to say and spot the 'Red Flags'

The company that issued the report is registered with NAPIT. I am welcoming any recommendations for qualified competent electricians, my flat is in London. It shouldn't have been so difficult to find a competent electrician. I don't mind paying for another report as long as they don't start raising nonsense points to get more money out of me