EICR Unsatisfactory - New Property

[westward10]

I despair at some of the individuals claiming to be electricians in our trade these days.

 

[rewireIT]

Thanks for the reply. But would fitting 4 x RCBO's resolve the C2's that were highlighted in my EICR? Assuming there are RCBO's out there for my unit. I know some have said it is available on here and have been recommended here which differs to what electricans here have told me that it won't work in plastic units.

Because they want to charge you for a full board change and/or are incompetent.

How would I fit the model number without opening up the whole unit which is screwed in which only a qualified electrican can do?

What's given you this idea? Anyone can look inside their unit as long as they follow some basic safety principles like don't touch anything inside.

 

[westward10]

You don't need to open it up. Starbreaker RCBOs are the only ones that fit, you need the compact version as the taller ones are difficult to fit.

 

[nicebutdim]

You don't need to open it up. Starbreaker RCBOs are the only ones that fit, you need the compact version as the taller ones are difficult to fit.

Not only do they fit, these RCBOs are made specifically for that board.

There's only one of two reasons why an "electrician" would claim Starbreaker components won't fit Starbreaker boards and neither are desirable qualities in an electrician: incompetence or dishonesty.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

It's pretty (very) odd that 3 electricians have said this, I.e exactly the same thing. I do think it's good to keep an open mind. There is the chance that the OP is missing out some other information, so we're missing the bigger picture.

I know that's sounding a bit airy fairy, but it just seems so odd that 3 electricians have said the same thing.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Because they want to charge you for a full board change and/or are incompetent.

What's given you this idea? Anyone can look inside their unit as long as they follow some basic safety principles like don't touch anything inside.

Blimey, please don't open up your consumer unit @AjayS2367

 

[nicebutdim]

It's pretty (very) odd that 3 electricians have said this, I.e exactly the same thing. I do think it's good to keep an open mind. There is the chance that the OP is missing out some other information, so we're missing the bigger picture.

I know that's sounding a bit airy fairy, but it just seems so odd that 3 electricians have said the same thing.

Take a look at the regulations quoted by the inspecting electrician, who declined to elaborate on the problems allegedly identified.

For all socket-outlets of rating 32A or less, unless an exception is permitted (411.3.3) is in a potentially dangerous condition. Urgent remedial action is required. C2
For the supply of mobile equipment not exceeding 32A rating for use outdoors (411.3.3) is in a potentially dangerous condition. Urgent remedial action is required. C2

From image provided of distribution board, the circuits quoted above both appear to be RCD protected. I don't think any electrician should consider it unreasonable for a customer to ask for clarification of the above comments.

Maybe I'm missing something on the subject of upgrades to existing board, but I'm not aware of any Starbreaker boards that don't use a plug-in live busbar to which RCBOs & AFDDs in current manufacture can not be fitted. If such a board existed, I'm fairly certain @westward10 would have raised that point.

It's quite likely the OP is missing certain information, but that would mostly be due to the fact that the inspector has declined to provide a simple, plain English explanation for coding. Can you imagine taking that stance with one of your customers?

 

[rewireIT]

Blimey, please don't open up your consumer unit @AjayS2367

I'm not telling them to open it, just commenting on the idea that somehow you need to be qualified to take the lid off your unit.

 

[AjayS2367]

It's pretty (very) odd that 3 electricians have said this, I.e exactly the same thing. I do think it's good to keep an open mind. There is the chance that the OP is missing out some other information, so we're missing the bigger picture.

I know that's sounding a bit airy fairy, but it just seems so odd that 3 electricians have said the same thing.

They definately advised me the information as mentioned here. I know it sounds odd but I wouldn't of posted here otherwise. I have spoken to another sparks and he advised it could be done but the circuits need to be tested first as MCBs could trip RCBOs and so circuits definately have to be tested first and then advising if it can be done. I am currently looking into this once he quote for testing.

Regarding opening the MCU, I have opened the outer transparent lid many times but it has no model number specified, I was referring to removing the two screws that hold the front face of the box and whether the model or serial no is inside.

 

[Mike Johnson]

You do not need to know the model or serial No, Westwood 10 already advised you that the compact Starbreaker RSBO's will fit, your electricians are not competent at best or trying to con you at worst.

 

[SJD]

They definately advised me the information as mentioned here. I know it sounds odd but I wouldn't of posted here otherwise. I have spoken to another sparks and he advised it could be done but the circuits need to be tested first as MCBs could trip RCBOs and so circuits definately have to be tested first and then advising if it can be done. I am currently looking into this once he quote for testing.

The EICR you posted shows a set of test results, which implies the relevant circuits have already been tested. However there are some discrepancies in the test sheets compared to what is actually installed, so I would be reluctant to believe the previous results. It is not unknown for them to be made up.

NB: It makes no difference whether fitting RCBOs or a new dual RCD board, the required tests are the same.

 

[rewireIT]

They definately advised me the information as mentioned here. I know it sounds odd but I wouldn't of posted here otherwise. I have spoken to another sparks and he advised it could be done but the circuits need to be tested first as MCBs could trip RCBOs and so circuits definately have to be tested first and then advising if it can be done. I am currently looking into this once he quote for testing.

Sounds reasonable and is what I would do. I wouldn't fit based on someone else's results and would insist I test it myself.

Regarding opening the MCU, I have opened the outer transparent lid many times but it has no model number specified, I was referring to removing the two screws that hold the front face of the box and whether the model or serial no is inside.

You don't have to be qualified to do that, but you dont have to do that to find out compatibility. Just the name of the breakers that fit the current board will suffice, any good wholesaler will know.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Have a look at post No1 the CU is inscribed "Crabtree Starbreaker" The OP has been advised at least twice that the compact Starbreaker RCBO's will fit.

 

[AjayS2367]

So an update, I spoke to another electrician who was a lot more helpful then the previous ones. He would be able to change the MCBs to RCBOs, however he said he will want to take out the current RCD for the sockets so 6 RCBOs instead of 4. I'm not sure the exact reason why as it was too technical for me but I do recall he said it would be a lot easier in case the tenant experiences any issues with anything tripping having RCBO circuit breaker for the sockets is easier so he will replace with 6 RCBOs. He does prefer to change the whole board for a new one but did say the wall around the board will have minor alterations as the size of the new board will be different. He said he can't confirm for sure these RCBOs are the correct ones but he seems to think they look right but did echo the fact these units were never designed for RCBOs when they were built but it should work. He will charge £200 to replace and test the circuits plus material costs on top. Technically can all 6 RCBOS be 32A rated in our consumer unit rather than 20A as suggested in one of the posts earlier? 32 Amp 30mA RCBO - Crabtree Starbreaker (Type A) B Curve (compact) | Crabtree (61/BM3230) - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CB61slashBM3230.html

 

[nicebutdim]

The proposal seems reasonable and will require some minor alterations: new busbar and link between neutral bars.

While the board was not originally designed for use with RCBOs, those which you have linked are pretty much the same size as currently installed MCBs and fit in exactly the same manner and, crucially, have been designed by the manufacturer with retro fitting in mind.

A new board is always an option, but it's unlikely that any replacement will offer decades of replacement parts as has been the case with Crabtree's starbreaker range.

Edit: all 6 breakers will not be rated at 32A. Your electrician will most likely replace each device the same rating currently fitted to the respective circuits.