EICR what code for inaccessible socket

[Adelaide]

Hi. To get a satisfactory EICR does every single socket need to be easily accessible eg if socket for a fridge or washing machine is behind on the wall, so you cant reach and need to pull machine forward away from wall to access the plug, is that unsatisfactory? ie C2

 

[Adelaide]

Unless the cable is likely to be or is prone to mechanical damage then no. Is the cable actually fixed.

From memory the cable comes through wall from bathroom (or maybe down from ceiling) and runs along inside wall of airing cupboard, fixed to wall by clips, then into power shower pump. So not subject to movement or rubbing

 

[westward10]

To code it as a 2 from what you describe is ridiculous. I would be asking how he has come to the Code 2 conclusions.

 

[Julie.]

From memory the cable comes through wall from bathroom (or maybe down from ceiling) and runs along inside wall of airing cupboard, fixed to wall by clips, then into power shower pump. So not subject to movement or rubbing

I find both these observations harsh, difficult without seeing them, because they both have some validity.

In the case of the inaccessible socket, you need to be able to isolate the appliance, and it should be possible without moving it - imagine sparks and flame coming from the appliance, you wouldn't want to be moving it! - having to find the consumer unit, identify the correct circuit and isolate isn't ideal when you need it quickly.

Similarly if the cable is dangling across the airing cupboard acting as an ideal washing line, then this could be an issue, if lots of sharp tools are stored in there with the potential for cutting an unprotected cable then again an issue.

In all these cases though I would expect it to be a recommendation (perhaps C3) but as the "fix" could be stop storing sharp things leaning across a cable in the last example it would likely not deserve any code.

 

[Adelaide]

Thanks Julie. Yes I agree that pulling out an appliance if on fire is not desirable at all. I'd probably just turn off everything at the consumer unit. From what everyone on here is saying, this "inaccessibility" is a C3 not a C2 or should have been put as a limitation. The question now is what do I do. I have to send this EICR to local council and letting agent. Do I tell them I've fixed problems myself ie I can put some trunking over shower cable myself, and next to washing machine is a wine rack which I can remove so socket can be accessed. I probably should ask this electrician to change report but I'm guessing he wants the work and won't. Suggestions anyone??

 

[Zerax]

The OP may find this interesting... https://www.----------------------------/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

 

[Adelaide]

The OP may find this interesting... https://www.----------------------------/media/2149/bpg4-1.pdf

Zerax, thank you for this. I have read and it does seem an electrician can use his judgment as there is no exhaustive detailed list of faults published. From the examples given I think that neither of the C2 faults listed by my electrician can be classed as C2 but may be C3. What can I do if this electrician is using his judgement inappropriately to get himself work

 

[westward10]

The first thing you need to do is confront him. Remember Best Practice Guides although helpful are not the be all and end all it is down to an individuals judgement. I would be asking what factors he considered to warrant a Code 2 judgement and how this poses an urgent attention situation, if he cannot give valid reasons say you are going to lodge a complaint to the NICEIC and keep all correspondence to emails so you can use them.

 

[snowhead]

Ask him to explain what Plastic trunking he plans on installing that would give adequate mechanical protection and would not cause a C2 on a subsequent EICR for the same reason.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Of the cable in the airing cupboard is correctly supported throughout its length it’s not even a code.
Did he pull the washing machine out to test at the socket point? If not, why not?

 

[pc1966]

Always start politely and ask for some further explanation and justification for the coding. Hopefully it can be resolved without the need to take it further.
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Did he pull the washing machine out to test at the socket point? If not, why not?

I can see that is often more trouble than many inspections warrant as pipe work can get in the way, needing disconnection, and many machines can be too heavy to safely move on your own. But that is not an excuse for coding it as a fault!

 

[Wilko]

There is an official installation method named ‘clipped direct’ which is where suitably insulated and sheathed cables are fixed directly to a wall (say). This installation method results in a high current capacity for the cable and is quite safe because we can see exactly where not to drill . However, if the shower was energised by single insulated conductors then yes they need further containment for safety.

Out of interest would you like to post a closeup pic of this shower cable?

 

[Adelaide]

The first thing you need to do is confront him. Remember Best Practice Guides although helpful are not the be all and end all it is down to an individuals judgement. I would be asking what factors he considered to warrant a Code 2 judgement and how this poses an urgent attention situation, if he cannot give valid reasons say you are going to lodge a complaint to the NICEIC and keep all correspondence to emails so you can use them.

Thank you. I emailed him 2 questions and here are his replies....

ME: Regarding the washing machine, it's easy to pull it out or remove the non fixed little shelf unit next to it. Why is this dangerous. Why is it C2?
His reply: The access you are describing is not sufficient.

Me: What does shower cable need protecting from??
Reply : All cable below 2.4M in height need to be covered.

Incidentally, I actually had another electrician do an EICR a couple of weeks ago. He found neither of these issues!!!! He did advise changing a fuse and was going to come back to fix but unfortunately something serious happened to him shortly after before he came back or issued EICR. He is not working anymore, hence my need for this second electrician as I needed EICR for new tenancy.
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Of the cable in the airing cupboard is correctly supported throughout its length it’s not even a code.
Did he pull the washing machine out to test at the socket point? If not, why not?

[automerge]1601050422[/automerge]

Of the cable in the airing cupboard is correctly supported throughout its length it’s not even a code.
Did he pull the washing machine out to test at the socket point? If not, why not?

Of the cable in the airing cupboard is correctly supported throughout its length it’s not even a code.
Did he pull the washing machine out to test at the socket point? If not, why not?

I wasn't there unfortunately but I don't think he pulled out machine or tested socket.

 

[David Prosser]

Thank you. I emailed him 2 questions and here are his replies....

ME: Regarding the washing machine, it's easy to pull it out or remove the non fixed little shelf unit next to it. Why is this dangerous. Why is it C2?
His reply: The access you are describing is not sufficient.

Me: What does shower cable need protecting from??
Reply : All cable below 2.4M in height need to be covered.

Incidentally, I actually had another electrician do an EICR a couple of weeks ago. He found neither of these issues!!!! He did advise changing a fuse and was going to come back to fix but unfortunately something serious happened to him shortly after before he came back or issued EICR. He is not working anymore, hence my need for this second electrician as I needed EICR for new tenancy.
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I wasn't there unfortunately but I don't think he pulled out machine or tested socket.

Maybe ask him to clarify which individual regs are being broken. A picture of the cable in the airing cupboard would help a lot.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Ahh yes pictures would help. You are more than in your right to ask where in BS7671 the observation is non-compliant aswell.

We will see a thread in a bit asking for ref numbers ?

 

[snowhead]

He's made his responses.
Email the NICEIC and ask them to confirm his statements.
Maybe include pictures of the washeing machine /access to it and also the cable in the airing cupboard.