EICR what code for inaccessible socket

[Adelaide]

Hi. To get a satisfactory EICR does every single socket need to be easily accessible eg if socket for a fridge or washing machine is behind on the wall, so you cant reach and need to pull machine forward away from wall to access the plug, is that unsatisfactory? ie C2

 

[Zerax]

From my experience... some of the best EICRs that I've seen have been from guys that I know are not members of a scam. And vice versa... some of the worst from guys that are fully apprenticed, have been in the industry for years and AC scam members etc.

So I think alot of it boils down to the individual... if you're conscientious about your work, take pride in producing something that you're proud to put your name to etc., everything else is secondary.

It happens in other industries too... some the the best house surveys I've seen have been from non-chartered surveyors... some of the worst from one of the 'big boy' outfits.

And let's not forget British Gas... not a great reputation... but they should be the best !!

 

[Robbieross]

Or mark it down as an operational limitation. Sometimes we find furniture that is way to heavy and/or expensive to move. I dont think you can code a socket inaccessible in this circumstance as a C2 (or any code)

Yes I have a massive piano - organ totally unmovable and due an electrical inspection and was worried and looked for an answer and glad I found it here. I imagine I won't get an answer as thread too old but can you mdo an inspection and leave out a couple of sockets? One in each room that are basically inaccessible due to another massive filing cabinet (full!)

 

[SJD]

Yes I have a massive piano - organ totally unmovable and due an electrical inspection and was worried and looked for an answer and glad I found it here. I imagine I won't get an answer as thread too old but can you mdo an inspection and leave out a couple of sockets? One in each room that are basically inaccessible due to another massive filing cabinet (full!)

Yes, there are often inaccessible sockets such as behind difficult-to-move furniture. If in use e.g. with an extension lead, I can maybe test at the end of that extension lead. Otherwise I put them down as operational limitations, e.g. "Socket behind large piano inaccessbile and not tested".

It only becomes a problem if there is a fault with the circuit (e.g. lack of ring continuity), and (for the remedial work) it looks like the fault could be at this socket. That has happened to me once or twice.

 

[mainline]

So if cables below 2.4m need to be covered then doesn't that cause issues with most sheds in the uk?

If there were such a reg for cables below 2.4mtrs wouldn't that make any flex cable hanging from a socket non-compliant or would it be argued that it's not fixed wiring, whichever way it's a nonsense.

 

[timhoward]

If there were such a reg for cables below 2.4mtrs wouldn't that make any flex cable hanging from a socket non-compliant or would it be argued that it's not fixed wiring, whichever way it's a nonsense.

Ooooh - welcome to arms - see you for a virtual pint later ;-)

 

[mainline]

In fact a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.

Does that include an SP socket outlet on a TT earthing system For isolation, Just asking.

 

[mainline]

What about plain welsh and regs number? Lol

mae'r holl Gymraeg yn blaen ac yn hawdd i'w darllen

 

[davesparks]

Does that include an SP socket outlet on a TT earthing system For isolation, Just asking.

Yes of course it does, you can't get much more isolated than pulling the plug out!

 

[mainline]

Yes of course it does, you can't get much more isolated than pulling the plug out!

Well there is that but how about using the switch as isolation.

 

[Julie.]

Well there is that but how about using the switch as isolation.

Yes and no.

For operational switching yes, but for true isolation, no.

Just the same as TN-C-S etc, isolation means disconnection of all live conductors - so no one should work on portable appliances etc whilst still plugged in even if switched off.

 

[mainline]

Yes and no.

For operational switching yes, but for true isolation, no.

Just the same as TN-C-S etc, isolation means disconnection of all live conductors - so no one should work on portable appliances etc whilst still plugged in even if switched off.

Julie. said:
In fact, a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.



I was led to believe that TN doesn't need DP, so for TN it would be ok.
But was wondering how that's going to work on a TT where you require DP and the socket outlet is SP.

As set out in table 537.4

 

[Julie.]

Julie. said:
In fact, a socket outlet is considered suitable for isolation.



I was led to believe that TN doesn't need DP, so for TN it would be ok.
But was wondering how that's going to work on a TT where you require DP and the socket outlet is SP.

As set out in table 537.4

A socket outlet is DP because when you un-plug you disconnect both line and neutral.

Isolation is therefore achieved for both live conductors irrespective of TT or any TNx arrangement.

 

[mainline]

A socket outlet is DP because when you un-plug you disconnect both line and neutral.

Isolation is therefore achieved for both live conductors irrespective of TT or any TNx arrangement.

I get that obviously if you disconnect the item entirely it's isolated, but they don't say unplug, they say switch.

Isolation: 537.2​

Every circuit / installation must be provided with a method of isolation from the supply. This isolation device should also be provided with a method to prevent unintentional or inadvertent reinstating (usually lockable).

In a TN-S or TN-C-S system it is not necessary to isolate / switch the neutral conductor providing that it is ‘reliably’ connected to Earth on the distributors incoming supply side.

It’s worth remembering that semiconductor devices can not be used as isolating devices.

Switching off for mechanical maintenance: 537.3​

Mechanical maintenance is work that does not involve exposure to electrical connections. As such this work is often undertaken by ‘ordinary persons’.

Examples: Cleaning, adjusting or replacing parts of a machine. Replacing lamps in a fluorescent light.

Isolating devices must be able to SWITCH the full load current and should be local to the equipment. More often than not the main isolating device is also used for mechanical maintenance for machinery as it’s close by and lockable. Other devices may be used such as, fused connection units, double pole switches and plugs and sockets.

 

[Julie.]

I get that obviously if you disconnect the item entirely it's isolated, but they don't say unplug, they say switch.

Isolation: 537.2​

Every circuit / installation must be provided with a method of isolation from the supply. This isolation device should also be provided with a method to prevent unintentional or inadvertent reinstating (usually lockable).

In a TN-S or TN-C-S system it is not necessary to isolate / switch the neutral conductor providing that it is ‘reliably’ connected to Earth on the distributors incoming supply side.

It’s worth remembering that semiconductor devices can not be used as isolating devices.

Switching off for mechanical maintenance: 537.3​

Mechanical maintenance is work that does not involve exposure to electrical connections. As such this work is often undertaken by ‘ordinary persons’.

Examples: Cleaning, adjusting or replacing parts of a machine. Replacing lamps in a fluorescent light.

Isolating devices must be able to SWITCH the full load current and should be local to the equipment. More often than not the main isolating device is also used for mechanical maintenance for machinery as it’s close by and lockable. Other devices may be used such as, fused connection units, double pole switches and plugs and sockets.

Look at table 537.4 in detail,

It has an entry for switched sockets, they are suitable for functional switching and isolation.

Then look at the entry for UNSWITCHED sockets, once again they are suitable for BOTH functional switching and isolation.

So if indeed isolation can only be achieved by switches, this could not be possible!

You can provide isolation via disconnection (where circumstances allow)

A standard bs1363 plug and socket can be disconnected under load by pulling the plug out - I think it is covered in one of the notes associated with table 537.4

In fact the suitability of sockets is noted as the last part of your extract:

"Other devices may be used such as, fused connection units, double pole switches and plugs and sockets."

 

[Sensei]

From memory the cable comes through wall from bathroom (or maybe down from ceiling) and runs along inside wall of airing cupboard, fixed to wall by clips, then into power shower pump. So not subject to movement or rubbing

It could be a temperature issue with the cable and being suitable for the environment if it gets hot in there so maybe a comment about I higher temp tolerant cable (like flex) but id not c2 it