Electrical competence

[Cbuk2k2]

Evening folks,

I'm in the process of starting a plumbing and heating business, for some fairly long winded and boring reasons I want to employ a couple of guys from the outset. Plumbers don't seem to bother with any sort of electrical competence, I'd quite like to stay out of jail so was wondering if anyone could advise a basic electrical short course for the very limited electrical work they are likely to do. Essentially it will be connecting a flex to a FCU, possibly swapping a shower or basic fault finding. A fair bit of it is ELV these days which is reassuring.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Baddegg]

If they gonna fault find they need 2391-94/95 which ain’t easy and would qualify em to join a scheme and notify.....trust me fault finding is not a piece of p!ss....

 

[Cbuk2k2]

I think the box ticking yo might


I daresay that if you are experienced that you could teach your guys safe isolation procedure and basic connection skills.
When it comes to fault finding then a basic knowledge of electrical systems associated with plumbing would be needed, which would be something that could be assessed at interview stage. Many experienced heating installers will possess these skills.
If box ticking is your aim then which are those boxes ? Do you have any specific requirements from insurance firms ?

I've got a CV full of electrical/instrument qualifications for stuff like ATEX, AC Drives, protection relays etc. I've been designing/commissioning oil/gas, power and chemical plants for the past 15 years.

I'm very aware of the risks and will be very certain to ensure everone is safe before letting them loose. But what I'm needing is some bit of paper to say they are competent.

I'm just strugling to find out what made up convoluted sheme the trade bodies offer that helps with this.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

If they gonna fault find they need 2391-94/95 which ain’t easy and would qualify em to join a scheme and notify.....trust me fault finding is not a piece of p!ss....

Its not exactly rocket surgery is it, lets be honest. It's a very limited scope.

 

[Andy78]

I've got a CV full of dialectical/instrument qualifications for stuff like ATEX, AC Drives, protection relays etc. I've been designing/commissioning oil/gas, power and chemical plants for the past 15 years.

I'm very aware of the risks and will be very certain to ensure everone is safe before letting them loose. But what I'm needing is some bit of paper to say they are competent.

I'm just strugling to find out what made up convoluted sheme the trade bodies offer that helps with this.

I suppose that's what i'm asking. Why do you need a bit of paper ? is it for your own peace of mind ? Insurance requirements etc ?
I think this area is, as you say, very limited scope and that in house training to your own requirements may be able to cover what you require. If in house training cannot cover that for liability reasons, then why not ?

 

[Cbuk2k2]

I suppose that's what i'm asking. Why do you need a bit of paper ? is it for your own peace of mind ? Insurance requirements etc ?
I think this area is, as you say, very limited scope and that in house training to your own requirements may be able to cover what you require. If in house training cannot cover that for liability reasons, then why not ?

I may end up going down the in house route.

Its largely from a legal standpoint. I don't want to give an insurer grounds not to pay out on a claim and I don't want to be in front of a judge.

Even the most experienced guys make mistakes and do daft things at times.

 

[Andy78]

I may end up going down the in house route.

Its largely from a legal standpoint. I don't want to give an insurer grounds not to pay out on a claim and I don't want to be in front of a judge.

Even the most experienced guys make mistakes and do daft things at times.

True. I'm struggling to think of any courses I have done or know of that would be any use in your case without going overboard in terms of content or cost. Perhaps think back to the courses you did that gave you competence in these specific areas ?

 

[SJD]

You could at least send them on a "safe isolation" course run by NICEIC. For some reason they make it last a day, but you at least get a bit of paper saying you've passed (assuming they do pass).

Beyond that, not sure if what you want exists.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Would one of those 3 week domestic installer courses cover most bases ?

Electrical Courses | Electrician Courses | C&G Courses & Training

Browse the widest range of electrical courses, training and qualifications in the UK below or simply search for what you need.

www.tradeskills4u.co.uk

 

[Cbuk2k2]

True. I'm struggling to think of any courses I have done or know of that would be any use in your case without going overboard in terms of content or cost. Perhaps think back to the courses you did that gave you competence in these specific areas ?

Thats the problem, when did you last come away from a course feeling you'd learnt anything useful?

You could at least send them on a "safe isolation" course run by NICEIC. For some reason they make it last a day, but you at least get a bit of paper saying you've passed (assuming they do pass).

Beyond that, not sure if what you want exists.

Yeah, that's a good idea. ACG gas training supposedly covers some of it.

Would one of those 3 week domestic installer courses cover most bases ?

Electrical Courses | Electrician Courses | C&G Courses & Training

Browse the widest range of electrical courses, training and qualifications in the UK below or simply search for what you need.

www.tradeskills4u.co.uk

Yeah, could be a last resort. I'm already forking out for £10K in training for each of them and a lot to learn for them in the next few months. I don't honestly think they need anything that in depth.

 

[Andy78]

Thats the problem, when did you last come away from a course feeling you'd learnt anything useful?

Honestly every electrical course I've ever done. The amount of useful stuff learnt varies, but i'd be lying if I said I'd learnt nothing useful on a course.

Just had a thought, if it's basic stuff you are looking at teaching your guys, honeywell do day courses teaching basic knowledge of heating systems.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

Honestly every electrical course I've ever done. The amount of useful stuff learnt varies, but i'd be lying if I said I'd learnt nothing useful on a course.

Just had a thought, if it's basic stuff you are looking at teaching your guys, honeywell do day courses teaching basic knowledge of heating systems.

I think that, along with the NICEIC safe isolation and some in house magumba may be perfect. Cheers! that's a big help.

 

[Des 56]

The problem you have is that the electrical trade bodies requires the person to perform safe isolation,safe isolation using approved test meters is easily taught and then understood by most people with a bit of common sense
The problem comes with identifying "what" requires isolation and what testing will ensure that isolation has been performed

Its these situations where a little knowledge is worse than no knowledge The partly trained guy not realising when he is out of his depth
There is no shortcut to a skill set,you either are skilled or you are not,there is no centre ground
The judge will want proof of competence and you will not be able to provide that proof

 

[ipf]

Evening folks,

I'm in the process of starting a plumbing and heating business, for some fairly long winded and boring reasons I want to employ a couple of guys from the outset. Plumbers don't seem to bother with any sort of electrical competence, I'd quite like to stay out of jail so was wondering if anyone could advise a basic electrical short course for the very limited electrical work they are likely to do. Essentially it will be connecting a flex to a FCU, possibly swapping a shower or basic fault finding. A fair bit of it is ELV these days which is reassuring.

Cheers
Dave

I understand your concern. When you say 'connecting a flex to a FCU' are you considering installation of said FCU.
I'm sure you would come across situations where this would be required. With the installation of such (fixed wiring), there are electrical requirements including installation testing and provision of a completion certificate, in this case a Minor Works cert. The testing would also require a basic check on the existing installation, in case of any problems. RCD protection is another factor to be considered.
If this is what you require, scheme membership would be advised, thus giving scope for further work, if required.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Also Don’t forget a relatively small job like adding a new fused spur for a boiler can escalate pretty quickly

No bonding , no Rcd , dodgy old existing wiring with no earth continuity

Your simple 45 min job suddenly got interesting

 

[Cbuk2k2]

The problem you have is that the electrical trade bodies requires the person to perform safe isolation,safe isolation using approved test meters is easily taught and then understood by most people with a bit of common sense
The problem comes with identifying "what" requires isolation and what testing will ensure that isolation has been performed

Its these situations where a little knowledge is worse than no knowledge The partly trained guy not realising when he is out of his depth
There is no shortcut to a skill set,you either are skilled or you are not,there is no centre ground
The judge will want proof of competence and you will not be able to provide that proof

ACS gas training in theory proves a person competent to undertake work on heating and plumbing appliances and ancillary systems. Most companies seem happy to go with this alone. Honewell offer a several very cheap training courses for their controls. Finally the NICEIC course covers safe isolation. There is only generally one point of isolation in a heating system and 99% of the time it will be a FCU or MCB. I think those two training courses along with an inhouse competence scheme is fairly robust.