Electrical competence

[Cbuk2k2]

Evening folks,

I'm in the process of starting a plumbing and heating business, for some fairly long winded and boring reasons I want to employ a couple of guys from the outset. Plumbers don't seem to bother with any sort of electrical competence, I'd quite like to stay out of jail so was wondering if anyone could advise a basic electrical short course for the very limited electrical work they are likely to do. Essentially it will be connecting a flex to a FCU, possibly swapping a shower or basic fault finding. A fair bit of it is ELV these days which is reassuring.

Cheers
Dave

 

[Cbuk2k2]

The reason the electrical trade is in a mess is because everyone now wants the shortest, cheapest and easiest way to do electrical work and aren’t interested in proper training

I'm a time served E&I tech with an HNC / degree in electrical/instrument engineering. I've got 15 years experience designing/compromising/repairing complex industrial systems in all sorts of industries.

I've worked alongside 1000's of guys of all sorts of disciplines and have got good at spotting guys who can pick stuff up.

I've also trained dozens if not hundreds of guys over the years on how to fault find/repair systems of all sorts of levels of complexity.

I fully intend to invest as much time as required to ensure the guys I employ are competent and safe to undertake the limited scope of electrical work but would like some form of formal stamp to show this.

I completely agree many plumbers shouldn't even be allowed to own a terminal driver hence I'm not wanting to take on experienced plumbers if I can avoid it.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

Wasn't this exactly what the domestic installer route was supposed to clear up this thou ?

It was aimed at getting plumbers and hvac guys up to speed with basic wiring etc so that they could install showers and new circuits into peoples homes without having to employ a full time electrician

At this time I don't think it makes business sense to invest the time and money in training a guy (or girl) to install new circuits etc. On top of that you've got scheme fees and insurance costs etc.

I'd just like a way to demonstrate they are competent and safe to perform like for like swaps, connect an appliance to a fused spur, replace a shower or fault find on a live system.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

I'm in the process of starting a plumbing and heating business

Problem is I’m once were up and running I’m rarely going to be working with the guys. I’m generally out of the country for about 6 months of the year with my day job.

Not electrical, but rather more general business advice... during the first years of starting a business, if it is going to be one of the minority which survive, you as owner need to be living, breathing, eating and sleeping it. There comes a point where you may be able to appoint your best man/woman as manager and perhaps a couple of others that shine as supervisors.

In which case, it should be your management/supervisory team that have the in depth knowledge & training, as they will be the ones training your installation & maintenance staff. As a business owner, you need an overall appreciation, general (but possibly not fully in-depth) understanding of specific operational processes and a mind very focussed on keeping your business safe, secure and legal.... whilst making some money.

I'm fairly happy I could teach your average spaniel to fault find/repair them.

Don't take this the wrong way, however I think you'll do better to lose this kind of attitude, as it's unlikely to bode well with anyone, staff, potential staff, nor customers. Don't devalue your work, even though it may be simple to you. Upsell and upskill, recognise and respect the skills that exist in the industry.

On another note, there was a guy that frequented this forum a few months ago, I think his name was Jack? I've not seen him around for a while, which is a shame as I feel you two would have got on well together, as he could always offer some real pearls of business wisdom and quick solutions to quandaries, that often escaped us mere mortals!

 

[Cbuk2k2]

Not electrical, but rather more general business advice... during the first years of starting a business, if it is going to be one of the minority which survive, you as owner need to be living, breathing, eating and sleeping it. There comes a point where you may be able to appoint your best man/woman as manager and perhaps a couple of others that shine as supervisors.

In which case, it should be your management/supervisory team that have the in depth knowledge & training, as they will be the ones training your installation & maintenance staff. As a business owner, you need an overall appreciation, general (but possibly not fully in-depth) understanding of specific operational processes and a mind very focussed on keeping your business safe, secure and legal.... whilst making some money.


Don't take this the wrong way, however I think you'll do better to lose this kind of attitude, as it's unlikely to bode well with anyone, staff, potential staff, nor customers. Don't devalue your work, even though it may be simple to you. Upsell and upskill, recognise and respect the skills that exist in the industry.

On another note, there was a guy that frequented this forum a few months ago, I think his name was Jack? I've not seen him around for a while, which is a shame as I feel you two would have got on well together, as he could always offer some real pearls of business wisdom and quick solutions to quandaries, that often escaped us mere mortals!

I've run business large and small and to some extent agree with what you're saying about living and breathing. To my mind the most valuable thing I can do for the business is continue with my day job and ensure a steady cash flow. I've picked a couple of guys and looking for a third I have every faith in. I've been open with each I want them to be fairly autonomous but we all have each other for back up. I've also made it clear each will as quickly as possible be running their own patch with a small group of guys and receiving a profit share.

The spaniel comment is rather flippant but I'm finding the attitude of some in electrical and heating that they're rocket surgeons fairly tiresome. The majority of this competence stuff seems to a combination of extracting cash from working guys and protecting jobs for the boys.

I'm coming to this after years of working with large multinationals in an industrial environment so seem to have somewhat different perspective on working practices etc.

 

[Risteard]

75% of the controls within a heating system are within the boiler itself. With smart controls like Hive/Nest even the external stuff is going low voltage.

Was that intended to read going extra-low voltage?

 

[Cbuk2k2]

Was that intended to read going extra-low voltage?

Yes, where programmers and room/tank stats were 240v 10 years ago more and more today they’re smart controls using Zigbee or WiFi with a couple of double AAs

 

[Clarksol]

Hello All,

I think that solenoid valves are customized to meet different air, gaseous, and wetted chemistry applications in HVAC, analytical, general industrial, biotech, medical, and automation systems. Also, valves are very small in size with the negligible internal volume.

 

[HexHex]

There is a course available which might suit your needs

It is aimed at people doing electrical work in support of their main trade such as kitchen fitters, plumbers etc.

It's called Domestic Installers (Part P) Training including C&G 2393 Building Regs Qual

It covers the essentials such as safe isolation and lots of other things, but its only a 4 day course. I have no idea on what they cover but it would be very basic for a 4 day course

You say your plumbers possibly swap a shower or terminate a FCU and changing like for like might be fine but simply knowing how to terminate and fit something is not enough, are they competent enough to work out loads, cable sizes etc.?

What if 1 of your customers supplies a larger kw shower for 1 of your plumbers to swap and the existing cable is not adequate enough for the new load, would they know that?

 

[KennyKen]

I’m an E&I tech and completed two apprenticeships. find yourself a Duel trade plumber, Spark. They are around. Instead of this race to the bottom. Domestic installer crap.

 

[Cbuk2k2]

I’m an E&I tech and completed two apprenticeships. find yourself a Duel trade plumber, Spark. They are around. Instead of this race to the bottom. Domestic installer crap.

To be honest I’ve struggled to find anyone I’d actually choose to employ. Finding a guy i trust to be essentially self employed on my behalf, organising jobs, billing customers etc isn’t easy. Finding one that happens to be both a decent spark and a plumber is a push.
[automerge]1582325334[/automerge]

There is a course available which might suit your needs

It is aimed at people doing electrical work in support of their main trade such as kitchen fitters, plumbers etc.

It's called Domestic Installers (Part P) Training including C&G 2393 Building Regs Qual

It covers the essentials such as safe isolation and lots of other things, but its only a 4 day course. I have no idea on what they cover but it would be very basic for a 4 day course

You say your plumbers possibly swap a shower or terminate a FCU and changing like for like might be fine but simply knowing how to terminate and fit something is not enough, are they competent enough to work out loads, cable sizes etc.?

What if 1 of your customers supplies a larger kw shower for 1 of your plumbers to swap and the existing cable is not adequate enough for the new load, would they know that?

Thanks for the heads up on the course I’ll have a look. I’ve spoken to a couple of colleges who’ve similar suggested a limited scope qualification.

I’m not really sure the shower cable is a valid concern. If the cables protected with a correctly sized MCB worst case the shower trips mid use.

 

[OnlQQker]

To be honest I’ve struggled to find anyone I’d actually choose to employ. Finding a guy i trust to be essentially self employed on my behalf, organising jobs, billing customers etc isn’t easy. Finding one that happens to be both a decent spark and a plumber is a push.
[automerge]1582325334[/automerge]


Thanks for the heads up on the course I’ll have a look. I’ve spoken to a couple of colleges who’ve similar suggested a limited scope qualification.

I’m not really sure the shower cable is a valid concern. If the cables protected with a correctly sized MCB worst case the shower trips mid use.

The problems start though when replacing the shower for another which is of higher Kw. The cable can get seriously hot before the Mcb trips!