Electrical Report on My House

[Tony Harte]

Hi Guys and possibly Girls? I hope you can help. I have employed an electrician to carry out a electrical report on my property prior to sale. It seems that some estates agents are suggesting a full report now rather than just an energy efficiency report. I would prefer to know that the property is in A1 condition electrically before selling it on to another party, so I am happy to cover the cost.

The electrician has carried out a thorough report with which I am really happy with and I am happy to pay for his time to rectify any problems he has found. He explained to me about the classifications and there are a number of 3’s that he can resolve at little cost. The biggest issue is a 2 which is a short between the Neutral and earth wire on the downstairs lighting circuit, he says it can sometimes be difficult and time consuming to resolve but he has explained to me the process that he will use to find it. Which I think I understand?!

Anyway he tried to explain to me what the safety implications were if this was left as it is and that he couldn’t pass the house as safe with it as it is. But I don’t really understand and we seem to be on a different wavelength if you know what I mean? Can someone put it in layman’s terms to explain to me, what could potentially happen if it was left as it is? I have no intention of cutting corners and leaving it as it is but would like to fully understand the potential of the problem.

I am a bit technical but don’t get too heavy on me!!!!

Regards
Tony

 

[Des 56]

A neutral earth fault can cause problems,there is the user example of any Rcd protection causing nuisance tripping

An example whereby the neutral (maybe at your main switch)is lost,d there is a neutral- earth on a 1.0mm lighting circuit
There is possibility that the whole of the installations heavy loads may be returning the neutral current to the incoming via your small lighting earth conductor (cpc) this caused by the short between the cpc and the circuit neutral
You end up with danger of fire with a massively overloaded cable

 

[Tony Harte]

Thanks Des. Ok he explained the lighting circuit wasn’t on an RCD if it was it would have caused issues with the RCD tripping. Only the sockets and cooker were on the RCD, I haven’t got the full report yet.

So I think I understand ish? So let me try and see if I really do! If the main neutral wire coming in from the supplier got disconnected for some reason on the main fuseboard. Then the current/electricity for that circuit and others would return back to the fuseboard via the earth connections that are much smaller is that correct? Making all the earth wires carry current to all outlets? So ineffective treating the earth as a neutral?

This is me getting really basic here! If you have a live wire brown or red going to a light bulb, I assume the neutral wire blue or black has the same current flowing in it back to the fuseboard?

Regards
Tony

 

[Risteard]

But I don’t really understand and we seem to be on a different wavelength if you know what I mean? Can someone put it in layman’s terms to explain to me, what could potentially happen if it was left as it is?

A neutral/Earth fault is a fire risk. I came across one a number of months ago whereby an unregistered contractor had fitted downlights, replacing melted cables. Several weeks later these cables were all melted again.

Upon further investigation I found that the neutral tail from the ESB's (the DSO) PEN conductor was broken and that the entire installation's load was returning through a neutral/Earth fault on a lighting circuit. Needless to say I had to explain to the owners of the installation that this was a very dangerous situation and needed rectified immediately.

I now do all of their electrical work.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

A disconnected supply neutral is not the only scenario where a danger arises. In an otherwise healthy system a N-E fault creates a parallel path through which a return current can bypass the neutral, with the associated risk of fire.

 

[sparksburnout]

Why don't you just trust the guy that you have employed, unless you have a reason not to?? If he knew you were on here questioning his competence I am sure he would not be too impressed. The guy sounds like he knows what he is doing to me, just let him get on with it.

 

[telectrix]

think OP does trust him, just trying to get his head round the techy bit.

 

[kingeri]

N-E faults are one of those that can sit there on an old installation for years without being detected, and is one good reason to do testing before a CU change! I remember getting bitten by one of these early in my career, had to rectify it at my own cost because I hadn't picked it up before I put the RCD in.

 

[Octopus]

Only C1's and C2's would give an "unsatisfactory" outcome and a fuseboard you describe is likely to have been installed under the 16th edition so a handful of C3's isn't unusual.

As any buyers surveyors are likely to "flag" the "old" fuseboard, I would recommend you focus on the C2's only.

Just saying

 

[Tony Harte]

Why don't you just trust the guy that you have employed, unless you have a reason not to?? If he knew you were on here questioning his competence I am sure he would not be too impressed. The guy sounds like he knows what he is doing to me, just let him get on with it.

I must be missing something? Where does it say I don’t trust him? I made it quite clear that I am happy with his work. Would you take your car to a garage and let them tell the thingamajig is broken and it needs fixing without knowing what it is or would you just say ok fix it?

 

[Tony Harte]

A neutral/Earth fault is a fire risk. I came across one a number of months ago whereby an unregistered contractor had fitted downlights, replacing melted cables. Several weeks later these cables were all melted again.

Upon further investigation I found that the neutral tail from the ESB's (the DSO) PEN conductor was broken and that the entire installation's load was returning through a neutral/Earth fault on a lighting circuit. Needless to say I had to explain to the owners of the installation that this was a very dangerous situation and needed rectified immediately.

I now do all of their electrical work.

Thanks for the reply. What’s ESB, DSO and PEN?

 

[sparksburnout]

I must be missing something? Where does it say I don’t trust him? I made it quite clear that I am happy with his work. Would you take your car to a garage and let them tell the thingamajig is broken and it needs fixing without knowing what it is or would you just say ok fix it?

I think you are, yes. The guy is there to do his job, not spend ages explaining electrical theory to you. He has attempted to explain the problem to you, and you have not understood, that is why he is a professional electrician. I am sure some of the more complex problems that a modern car could have would also be quite tricky to explain and I am also sure that the dealer would not spend his time giving you an amateurs guide to fault diagnoses and rectification. Why can't you just let him get on with it? I am sorry but coming on here relaying the information that you have just smacks of mistrust and if a customer of mine did it I would not be impressed.

 

[DPG]

I personally think it's a good thing that he wants to understand it. He's not trying to get out of doing something, and he doesn't mistrust the sparky - he just likes to understand stuff. I'm the same.

 

[sparksburnout]

I personally think it's a good thing that he wants to understand it. He's not trying to get out of doing something, and he doesn't mistrust the sparky - he just likes to understand stuff. I'm the same.

Yeah I know, I'm the same as well, but the guy's there to do a job! He's probably got to get off and go to another one......It just seems to me he has already had a go at explaining? The point is, if I were him and I saw this on here, I would not be very impressed - I'm sure most people would assume that the customer was beginning to lose confidence in him, no?

 

[Tony Harte]

I think you are, yes. The guy is there to do his job, not spend ages explaining electrical theory to you. He has attempted to explain the problem to you, and you have not understood, that is why he is a professional electrician. I am sure some of the more complex problems that a modern car could have would also be quite tricky to explain and I am also sure that the dealer would not spend his time giving you an amateurs guide to fault diagnoses and rectification. Why can't you just let him get on with it? I am sorry but coming on here relaying the information that you have just smacks of mistrust and if a customer of mine did it I would not be impressed.

Oh dear!! Looks like I hit a nerve. I think you forgot to add welcome to the forum? I assume the warm welcome from a certain individual means new members don’t stick around for too long? Or is it simply a deflection because he doesn’t know the answer to my original question?

Fortunately the majority of the replies are positive. I suppose there’s always one on all forums.