Electrician has not supplied Certificate

[jcs8215248]

I have had some work done in our home but is is taking a long time getting the relevant certificates from the electrician.

I eventually received three Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificates covering much of the work. There is however still a significant one missing and I am at a loss to know how to get the certificate for the work.

The utility room involved more than just electrical work and was undertaken by a builder who subcontracted the electrical work to an electrician. The main work included almost completely rewiring a utility room but there was other electrical work done in my home as well. The missing certificate is for the lighting circuit where 8 GU10 LED down-lighters replaced the 2 pendant lights and the switching was changed to two way. This part of the work was completed around the end of 2016 but further electrical work was done in other parts of the house earlier this year (March).

I have no reason to think the work was not done according the the standards. Apparently the electrician mislaid the measurements he took and had to revisit to take them again.

Am I right to be concerned that he not yet provided the final certificate apart from him asking me to confirm which circuit was being used (on 19 July), the relevant work was completed December 2016?

What should I do if he fails to provide the certificate?

Should I inform his trade body (Elecsa)?

 

[Risteard]

Get the Builder to take this forward or charge him for Third Party Certification, which only Stroma CPS operatives such as myself can do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does Third Party Verification not have to be agreed before the job starts as the design has to be agreed and inspection has to take place during erection when first fixing before cables are concealed? I don't believe that it can be done as an afterthought.

 

[Risteard]

Get the Builder to take this forward or charge him for Third Party Certification, which only Stroma CPS operatives such as myself can do.

Correct me if I'm wrong but does Third Party Verification not have to be agreed before the job starts as the design has to be agreed and inspection has to take place during erection when first fixing before cables are concealed? I don't believe that it can be done as an afterthought.

 

[suffolkspark]

I also believe that is correct, unless you only sign the testing box which then makes it a waste of time anyway! and its not only stroma CPS people that can do it either....

 

[The Ghost]

Maybe an EICR in that case then. Either way a third party will have to be involved to produce the desired certification.

 

[Octopus]

Surely one EIC for any and all work carried out on the installation rather than one for each circuit.

Disagree, my point is that a new circuit should be covered by an EIC, and yes it I did a job with 1 or more new circuits and other circuit mods I would issue an EIC for the lot..

 

[The Ghost]

not only stroma CPS

Oh I wasn't aware other schemes support that. Which scheme is that?

 

[Octopus]

Oh I wasn't aware other schemes support that. Which scheme is that?

Napit if my memory serves me correctly

 

[The Ghost]

Napit

Can any other NAPIT member confirm that they support third party notification. I can show you my certificate from Stroma specifying in particular third party notification. What form does NAPIT give?

 

[Octopus]

Can any other NAPIT member confirm that they support third party notification. I can show you my certificate from Stroma specifying in particular third party notification. What form does NAPIT give?

No idea

I'm with Stroma and don't / won't do 3rd Party ..........

 

[The Ghost]

I must admit I am rather doubtful as to whether another scheme supports third party. Stroma do but it is very specific to get the certification for third party. However it would be nice to have it confirmed with someone elses scheme certificate showing third party being supported. I know NIC absolutely DO NOT.

 

[Midwest]

I must admit I am rather doubtful as to whether another scheme supports third party. Stroma do but it is very specific to get the certification for third party. However it would be nice to have it confirmed with someone elses scheme certificate showing third party being supported. I know NIC absolutely DO NOT.

Third party certification schemes for domestic electrical work - GOV.UK - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/third-party-certification-schemes-for-domestic-electrical-work

Electrical Third Party Certification | NAPIT - https://www.napit.org.uk/schemes/third-party-certification.aspx

As regards who is the recipient of a certificate (MEIW or EIC), I note BS7671 & GN3 states that the cert's should be received by the person ordering the work, but if not the owner of the installation, the cert' or copy of be given to the owner.

So my understanding, in a new build for example, when the 'owner' will not be established or finalise until some time after the completion of the work, the builder would be given the cert'. After completion of sale, that cert' or copy would be given to the eventual owner. Also in the case of a tenant or lease holder, who would be ordering the work, would follow in a similar process, and the owner of the building receiving the original or copy.

In this particular example, the person ordering the work was the OP, even though the builder subcontracted the work, i.e. OP should have received any certificates direct from the electrician. Under the Building Regulations, the building owner may also be responsible for ensuring that the work complies with Building Regulations. Failure to do so may result in prosecution. Part P Building Regs, states any work should be carried out in accordance with BS7671, which states the issuing of the relevant certificate for works completed.

Hence, I can't see that the builder in this case, was the person ordering the work.

 

[Risteard]

Disagree, my point is that a new circuit should be covered by an EIC, and yes it I did a job with 1 or more new circuits and other circuit mods I would issue an EIC for the lot..

So you don't disagree then?

 

[Risteard]

In this particular example, the person ordering the work was the OP, even though the builder subcontracted the work

Given that the builder contracted the Electrician, it is the builder who ordered the electrical work from the Electrician. Therefore the Electrician was obliged to provide the builder with the certificate(s) and no-one else. It was the builder's responsibility to ensure that these were then received by the OP.

 

[The Ghost]

Ok @Murdoch I eat my words you are correct re Napit. And thanks @Midwest re the info that settles that then. A good piece re Person ordering the work. I might argue with that based on the fact the OP asked the builder to do work. The builder subbed the spark hence builder trumps OP. Ah, @Risteard pipped at the post.

 

[Midwest]

Given that the builder contracted the Electrician, it is the builder who ordered the electrical work from the Electrician. Therefore the Electrician was obliged to provide the builder with the certificate(s) and no-one else. It was the builder's responsibility to ensure that these were then received by the OP.

I'll disagree with you there, as usual BS 7671 is vague on the definition of 'person ordering the work', and it seems I interpret it differently to you.

The OP has asked the builder to do some work, the OP expects that to include services, and would have probably stipulated on the extent of those electrical works. Therefore, the person ordering the work is the home owner, in this case the OP. Unless you can provide suitable evidence to the contrary, we can argue all night long.