EV Charger Installation - Cabling Query? | Page 3 | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss EV Charger Installation - Cabling Query? in the Electric Vehicles Advice Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

I'm pretty certain there is no external earth rod installed for this.
As the unit has been installed for use internally; is this perhaps the reason why no earth rod was installed or required?
This is a good point. Section 722 only says PME earthing shall not be used if the charge point is located externally OR if it is located internally and is used to charge a vehicle located outdoors.
If you only ever intend to charge the car in the garage then I guess this is ok.
I’d be interested in others thoughts on this?
 
This is a good point. Section 722 only says PME earthing shall not be used if the charge point is located externally OR if it is located internally and is used to charge a vehicle located outdoors.
If you only ever intend to charge the car in the garage then I guess this is ok.
I’d be interested in others thoughts on this?

Would like to know too now! Does it still mean charging the car outside from the inside unit is still a no-no?

Again, what are the risks in doing so?
 
I agree it's location is a bone of contention but then again wherever it's location like any other socket on a ground floor level it could be used out of doors.

I do this all the time, for the lawnmower....as I don't have an external socket - use an internal socket connected to an extension reel.
 
Would like to know too now! Does it still mean charging the car outside from the inside unit is still a no-no?

Again, what are the risks in doing so?
It does mean charging the vehicle outside is a 'no no'. I 'think' it also means the vehicle should not even be capable of being charged outside if PME is used.
Here is an article that you will find interesting and it explains the risks associated with using PME earthing.
 

Attachments

  • EV charhing and PME.pdf
    287.8 KB · Views: 26
if the prohibition of PME for EV chargers is to eliminate risk if the supply N is lost (as with metalclad caravans) the I can't see any reason to differentiate between inside or outside. a fault occuring would have a similar result, in or out. then, i have not done any research on EV so my knowledge is limited.
 
This is a good point. Section 722 only says PME earthing shall not be used if the charge point is located externally OR if it is located internally and is used to charge a vehicle located outdoors.
If you only ever intend to charge the car in the garage then I guess this is ok.
I’d be interested in others thoughts on this?

I've never looked in any detail at the EV chargers regulations as ive never needed to yet. My thoughts are only based on my logic and what i've seen on the forum.

I assume the desire to connect the chargers to a TT earthing system relates to the car being connected to the installation earth whilst charging and thus becoming live during a PEN failure when connected to PME.
So if the car is inside then it becomes a big piece of exposed earthed metal whilst charging, so if it was connected to a TT system whilst the rest of the installation is connected to PME then the car would be an extraneous part to the installation introducing a dangerous earth potential.
 
As long as the installer made you aware that the car must only be charged inside then it's all good. Maybe a sticker stating this on the charger itself as a reminder would have been a good idea too.
 
But the charge point is inside, so it can't be connected to a different earthing system as the rest of the installation inside. You cannot mix two different earthing systems within one installation like this.
Ok so the whole installation would have to be TT for this particular set up to comply?
 
As long as the installer made you aware that the car must only be charged inside then it's all good. Maybe a sticker stating this on the charger itself as a reminder would have been a good idea too.

Actually, when the installation team of 2 were out here. I did query about the cabling size to see if there was any possibility in charging the car outside, with the garaged closed (concerned that the cabling would not accommodate?). Installer didn't say or point out this concern; instead is was actually suggesting that my cabling could potentially fit through the side gap in the garage to allow outside charging! So makes you wonder eh?
 
i fail to see any detriment in a PME system having a rod added as well. it's done as standard in some other countries, and round here a lot of older
TN-S systems also have a rod.
 
i fail to see any detriment in a PME system having a rod added as well. it's done as standard in some other countries, and round here a lot of older
TN-S systems also have a rod.

So I assume the rod is installed outside, under the ground? I assume simply a connection from this rod is routed and connected to the charging unit inside (replacing the earth of this unit from the PME). Is that right?
 
My neighbour has an electric car. he parks it in the runway in front of his garage, and he brings the charging cable under the door from the garage and plugs it in to his car. There is no way he can ever get his car into the garage. Should I assume that he has an earth rod externally, because there is no evidence of such a thing. The outside parking court is a communal area, so if he has an earth rod, he needs consent from the other owners...not that anyone is likely to object, but you know how it is with awkward neighbours. Does the very fact that he parks outside, within 10' of the socket, make a difference?
 
I've recently quoted for two jobs and in both instances none of the other people who quoted mentioned anything to the client about the possibility of an earth rod(s) having to be installed. I asked each client for details of the EV charging unit that was to be installed. All of the units listed would most certainly have required a rod(s). The earthing system for each of the two installations was T-N-CS.

So, either the clients weren't, for whatever reason(s), informed of the need for an earth rod(s), or the installers weren't planning on fitting any. I would be most alarmed indeed if it was the latter and hope that this isn't an ominous warning of corners being cut in order to produce competitive quotes that will win jobs. Alas, I fear it is, and that yet another race to the bottom has begun within the domestic market.

Those of us who are OLEV approved installers can obtain grants on behalf of clients under the Homecharge Scheme. The grant will cover up to 75% of the installation costs of an EV charger up to a maximum of £500. As this places non-approved installers at a huge disadvantage when competing for jobs, such installers must either reduce their profit margins in order to compete. One way to do so is to cut corners. The other would be to do the City & Guilds course at a cost £400+ and then join either SELECT or NICEIC as OLEV will not approve Scottish contractors who are not a member of either of these two trade bodies.

If an EV charger is to be installed on a T-N-CS system, not only is a rod(s) to be installed, but additional measures also need to be taken. For instance, any class I luminaires that are connected to the T-N-CS system and are located within simultaneous touching distance of the charger, the connection point and the vehicle under charge; would need to be replaced with class II fittings. Any extraneous conductive metalwork such a water or gas pipe would either need to be shielded in a non-conductive enclosure or converted to plastic piping. These arrangements are absolutely vital so to prevent simultaneous contact being made by a person between two different types of earthing systems. A risk-assessment needs to be undertaken. The written risk assessment document should be appended to the Electrical Installation Certificate. For clarity and reference, I have uploaded section 6.8 of the Code of Practice for Electric Vehicle Charging Equipment.

On the basis of what I have seen in the photographs that were uploaded by the OP, I conclude that an earth rod(s) should have been installed. Furthermore, there is no mention in the manufacturer's installation instructions for the EO Mini Pro that their product incorporates any in-built protection that would negate the need for an earth rod(s).

Although the OP has conceded in a previous post that it was him/her who advised the contractor to install the charger in the position that it now occupies, the contractor should nevertheless have been aware of the risks that would ensue from positioning the charging point in a place where it could be used to charge a vehicle located outdoors and should have advised the OP accordingly IMHO.
 

Attachments

  • EV COP 6.8.pdf
    688.8 KB · Views: 15
  • Mini Pro Installation Guide.pdf
    927.7 KB · Views: 8
Last edited:
So I assume the rod is installed outside, under the ground? I assume simply a connection from this rod is routed and connected to the charging unit inside (replacing the earth of this unit from the PME). Is that right?
Its probably best to put all these points to the electrician who installed it, they can then hopefully answer some of the questions.
If a rod does need to be installed it then needs to be connected at the right point in the installation (I.e. the small consumer unit housing the RCD and circuit breaker). The earth cable going into the small consumer unit would need to be removed otherwise you have 2 separate earthing systems together.
The earth cable needs to be the correct size and the earth rod needs obtain a suitable resistance value.
But... rather than getting bogged down with lots of differing views on this forum I would chat to the installing electrician. They seem to have done a neat job and have ticked all other required boxes (apart from one or 2 errors in the certificate), so put the questions to them now that you have a little more knowledge.
 

Reply to EV Charger Installation - Cabling Query? in the Electric Vehicles Advice Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

News and Offers from Sponsors

  • Article
Hope everyone has had a great Christmas and here’s hoping we all have a better new year coming our way ! Remember our riches aren’t measured by...
    • Friendly
    • Like
Replies
11
Views
578
  • Article
Join us at electronica 2024 in Munich! Since 1964, electronica has been the premier event for technology enthusiasts and industry professionals...
    • Like
Replies
0
Views
764
  • Sticky
  • Article
Thanks so much for sharing this with us! I’ll definitely take a look, it seems like there are a lot of useful and interesting products. The idea...
    • Like
Replies
5
Views
2K

Similar threads

A day for sure. I recently installed an Anderson with dedicated CU. The run was a fair bit worse as I had to drop a section of ceiling and chop...
Replies
13
Views
841
They won't do groundworks but you can get a quote from them for an EV charger install. https://octopus.energy/get-an-ev-charger/
Replies
37
Views
6K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top