fan and isolator positioning

[ineedhelp]

Hi Everyone

Quick intro, I have recently started house bashing due to twice being made redundant first as an auto spark and second more recently a server electrician installing power systems to servers and the likes.

Anyway, A recent call took me to someone bathroom with a ceiling fan fault. Did the usual diagnosis and found fan unit to be faulty. My question is, both the fan (240v) and the isolator are positioned that they are in zone 2. Looking at my trusted greenie it seems that this set up does not conform (if i have interpreted it correctly that is). My dilemma is do I replace fan anyway or report this as not conforming and price up accordingly to correct such.


In commercial/industrial land we always worked on the philosophy " if i don't make the existing installation any worse then go ahead (within reason of course) but, Domestic land is a whole new beast and usually is last man frees all.

any help guys and gals would be much appreciated.

 

[telectrix]

just replace the fan. don't over think the job.

 

[D Skelton]

The fan is fine in zone 2. You could always blank off the isolator then it would all conform

 

[telectrix]

is the isolator at a height > 2.25m? then if so, it's outside zones.

 

[davesparks]

Steam magically stops rising at a height of 2.25M, thus there is no chance of steam condensing on or in it and lowering the IR or corroding the contacts!

 

[telectrix]

so what? out of zones is out of zones. steam or no steam. the limits of the zones are concerned with safety of persons, not slow degradation of equipment. don't see many showers with corroded terminals and they're in the worst position as regards steam. and just to be completely pedantic. it's not steam, it's water vapour. steam is what geordies use to power their computers.

 

[Geordie Spark]

so what? out of zones is out of zones. steam or no steam. the limits of the zones are concerned with safety of persons, not slow degradation of equipment. don't see many showers with corroded terminals and they're in the worst position as regards steam. and just to be completely pedantic. it's not steam, it's water vapour. steam is what geordies use to power their computers.

Careful now .... don't forget who it was who built your railway for you.

 

[telectrix]

that was the paddys. they also bvuilt the canals. wonderful piece of navigation from pub to pub.

 

[trev]

steam is what geordies use to power their computers.

No no no, I have a giant hamster wheel linked up to magnets inside copper coils. The wheel is powered by my scouse slaves.

 

[Geordie Spark]

that was the paddys. they also bvuilt the canals. wonderful piece of navigation from pub to pub.

Aye .. under the watchful eye of wor Geordie Stephenson.

Without him you would have ended up with a canal.

 

[telectrix]

we had the canals before he was out of nappies. the canals are still here. most of the railway lines are now saucepans.

 

[Adam W]

Presumably the fan also needs to be sited out of the way of the steam (or water vapour) to prevent lowering the IR. :confused5:

 

[ineedhelp]

Thanks for the replies.. I think you are right and i am just over thinking the situation.
I am tempted to just replace fan and blank off the isolator.

 

[telectrix]

just replace the fan and leave the isolator alone. it's existing and not your problem unless you can see a danger. then advise customer accordingly.

 

[davesparks]

so what? out of zones is out of zones. steam or no steam. the limits of the zones are concerned with safety of persons, not slow degradation of equipment. don't see many showers with corroded terminals and they're in the worst position as regards steam. and just to be completely pedantic. it's not steam, it's water vapour. steam is what geordies use to power their computers.

Regulation 133.3 requires that equipment shall be selected so as to withstand the stresses and environmental conditions of the location.
A standard plate switch is not designed or rated to withstand a damp/ water vapour laden environment, the electric shower is designed to withstand that environment.

 

[jamie-spark]

Regulation 133.3 requires that equipment shall be selected so as to withstand the stresses and environmental conditions of the location.
A standard plate switch is not designed or rated to withstand a damp/ water vapour laden environment, the electric shower is designed to withstand that environment.

Partially agree, but what about domestic kitchens. 4 pots boiling on a hob, like in my house. There is more steam, than in my bathroom. It's going to look pretty rank with ip socket, switches and lights

 

[davesparks]

Partially agree, but what about domestic kitchens. 4 pots boiling on a hob, like in my house. There is more steam, than in my bathroom. It's going to look pretty rank with ip socket, switches and lights

Are your kitchen sockets mounted over 2.25M above floor level then? the question was whether or not it is appropriate to have a switch at that height when the water vapour will rise to ceiling level.
Kitchen sockets are normally at worktop height and the steam/water vapour is usually created at roughly the same height and rises from there upwards, plus cooker hoods do a much better job of extraction than bathroom fans do as they are localised to the source.

 

[PEG]

Regulation 133.3 requires that equipment shall be selected so as to withstand the stresses and environmental conditions of the location.
A standard plate switch is not designed or rated to withstand a damp/ water vapour laden environment, the electric shower is designed to withstand that environment.

...So what differing magical mix of materials,design and technology does your average shower unit possess,that an isolator switch box,does not? NO dig,just askin':stooge_curly:

 

[telectrix]

Regulation 133.3 requires that equipment shall be selected so as to withstand the stresses and environmental conditions of the location.
A standard plate switch is not designed or rated to withstand a damp/ water vapour laden environment, the electric shower is designed to withstand that environment.

you're missing the point. the isolator is existing... already there. probably been working fine for 20 years. why move it?

 

[jamie-spark]

Are your kitchen sockets mounted over 2.25M above floor level then. you never stated heights. You quoted a regulation concerning the environment to witch accessories were to be installed in.Not the height. the question was whether or not it is appropriate to have a switch at that height when the water vapour will rise to ceiling level Bo I do not install ip44 rated pull switches, just because they are out side 2.25m and vapour as you put it may enter.
Kitchen sockets are normally at worktop height and the steam/water vapour is usually created at roughly the same height and rises from there upwards, plus cooker hoods do a much better job of extraction than bathroom fans do as they are localised to the source.Cooker hoods require the user to switch on, bathroom fans are GENERALLY switched on via the light switch

As above

 

[jamie-spark]

Tapatalk is cack tonight can't edit my bad spelling XD

 

[davesparks]

Considering the conversation has started after Tel commented that an isolator installed above 2.25M is outside of the zones I think its safe to say that height has been mentioned already.

Again pull switches are specifically made for the environment.

Bathroom fans switched with the lights also require the user to switch the lights on, showering during thr hours of daylight may result in no fan.

 

[jamie-spark]

Considering the conversation has started after Tel commented that an isolator installed above 2.25M is outside of the zones I think its safe to say that height has been mentioned alreadyNot what u said in post 15
Again pull switches are specifically made for the environmen. pull switches have no greater ip rating than plate switches


Bathroom fans switched with the lights also require the user to switch the lights on, showering during thr hours of daylight may result in no fan. my bathroom genially has no window

 

[jamie-spark]

2.25m is outside the zones that's clearly stated in Bs7671

 

[UNG]

so what? out of zones is out of zones. steam or no steam. the limits of the zones are concerned with safety of persons, not slow degradation of equipment. don't see many showers with corroded terminals and they're in the worst position as regards steam. and just to be completely pedantic. it's not steam, it's water vapour. steam is what geordies use to power their computers.

Had a similar conversation with a fire officer doing an RRO inspection on a pub / hotel the fire alarm had 90°C heat detectors in the bedrooms and the fire officer said they had to be 90°C detectors as the steam from the en-suite showers would activate standard detectors pointed out to him as steam was produced when water reached 100°C if the showers were that hot any body in them would suffer serious burns and most showers are only 40ish°C anyway so cooling water vapour should not activate them

that was the paddy's. they also built the canals. wonderful piece of navigation from pub to pub.

Must have been thirsty work building those canals so they played join the pubs

Partially agree, but what about domestic kitchens. 4 pots boiling on a hob, like in my house. There is more steam, than in my bathroom. It's going to look pretty rank with ip socket, switches and lights