Federal 3871 “type” required for EICR

[westward10]

Type 4 devices have trip characteristics of 50×In so you could calculate a maximum Zs value although this is likely to be much less than the manufacturers guidelines, this is because 50× is the worse case scenario due to standards allowing between 10 - 50 × In. It is possible on higher disconnection times the thermal trip is considered over the magnetic trip.

 

[Kamikaze]

Hi does anyone know the type of the Federal “brown” 3871 breakers? The 3 poles have type 4 on them but nothing on the single poles? If they were type 4 the max zs of most circuits wont comply following our EICR.

Many thanks

It’s worth bearing in mind that Federal Electric went under because they fraudulently falsified test results of their MCB’s. There never was a product recall because it was deemed too expensive and it was cheaper to settle any claims through the courts. So it might be prudent to get rid of the fire starters while you have the chance.

 

[westward10]

How would you word that on an eicr like the OP is doing.

 

[Kamikaze]

They already don’t meet the maximum earth loop impedance allowed and under the 18th Edition will do so even less. He could also just note the safety implications in the recommendation section of the E.I.C.R. and let the client make up their own mind. It’s all about risk management. I personally have never seen a Federal Electric breaker burned out above 32A. They seem to fair better at higher ratings.

 

[Toneyz]

It’s worth bearing in mind that Federal Electric went under because they fraudulently falsified test results of their MCB’s. There never was a product recall because it was deemed too expensive and it was cheaper to settle any claims through the courts. So it might be prudent to get rid of the fire starters while you have the chance.

If that was true I would have thought they would have been forced to stop selling them and we would have had it all over the trade press.

 

[westward10]

They already don’t meet the maximum earth loop impedance allowed and under the 18th Edition will do so even less. He could also just note the safety implications in the recommendation section of the E.I.C.R. and let the client make up their own mind. It’s all about risk management. I personally have never seen a Federal Electric breaker burned out above 32A. They seem to fair better at higher ratings.

I don't understand they don't meet maximum efli values.

 

[Kamikaze]

My apologies, poor wording on my part. In the opening post the OP stated that most of his circuits were over the max zs threshold on the type 4 breakers. I also don’t know why they are still for sale. Maybe they solved the problem with the breakers but the damage to their reputation was still done.

 

[westward10]

Not sure why he stated this as he had no idea what to compare the values to. But I agree they are nasty devices.

 

[socket2me]

Based on calculations for a type 4 but seemed extremely low and meant everything failed.

 

[socket2me]

50xIN calculation that is...

 

[westward10]

Well your values must have been well below those on the Federal sheet I posted.

 

[Toneyz]

Was there not the tables in the regs books in the 15th or before for max Zs for BS3871 circuit breakers?

 

[westward10]

Was there not the tables in the regs books in the 15th or before for max Zs for BS3871 circuit breakers?

No they have never been listed due to their variable characteristics.

 

[socket2me]

Ind

Well your values must have been well below those on the Federal sheet I posted.

Indeed they were!

 

[Toneyz]

No they have never been listed due to their variable characteristics.

Is that all BS3871 MCB's or just the Federal ones?