Finding myown work

[lofty84]

I would like to start my own little comapny, whilst I like the the perks of being on the cards (sick pay, holidays etc) its hard to find a company that is willing to give you a perminant contract, my experiences say to me that they would sooner take you on on a self employed basis so they dont have the hassle and commitment that comes with haveing a permanent employee which is fair enough.

I think being my own boss will really suit me, im great with customers/clients and rather like the idea of only having myself to answer to, deciding what time I start and finish and how far awayfrom home Im prepared to travel. When your with a company if they have a job that is 2 hrs away you have to go to it even if it means leaveing at six and not getting back in untill 2 hours after u finish for the day. obviously this is all free time you give to the comapny.

At the moment I am currently working for a guy on self employeed basis haveing recently registered as self employeed, and he charges me out at a hourly rate which allows him to make a little something on me and give me a weekly wage. I dont have a problem with this as he finds the work and all ive got to do is complete the job so its fairly low stress and im learning under hiswind so to speak. I cant help thinking though that if I just bit the bullet and started to look for my own work eventually I would be better off. Im currently takeing home £300 a week. Im not the fastest electrician out there nor do I have alot of experience but I have served a 2 year apprenticeship whilst completeing my C&G 2330 and have also acheived my 2382 and as I say am pretty confident with my customer skills.

I am not partp registered or part of a scheme but plan to register with one by the end ofthe year. My boss at the moment has kindly said that if I decide to try and find my own work I can say that I am doing it in accordance with his company, which is very good of him. It will enable me to take on part p work (bathrooms and kitchens) and complete certificates.

I dont have a van unfortunatley but I dont think that means I cant start a business, its something I can work towards and get in the future, it might look a bit unprofesional turning up in a car but I can always explain to the customer that I am just starting out on my own and hopefully in time if I do well and am driven I will have one.

admitably I still turn up for jobs and become confussed but the way I see it I can do the basics like adding sockets, cookers, lighting, additional circuits etc, and Ive been told anything I am not to sure about I can ask him and he will either come and help me or tell me what I need to do which again is very nice of him. The best way to learn is to get out there on my own I feel and give it a go seeing as I have this security. He has offered to help me price jobs etc etc as well

I know guys do an 8week course and then go about finding there own work as some probably make more the £300 a week.

I live in surrey and was thinking of chargeing myself out @ 12 an hour (cash of course) so I can tryand make £100 a day. Even if work is slow and I can only find 3 days work each week, at least I am earning in three days what I use to earn in 5.

what do u think, should I go for it and make some business cards, flyers to post through people letter boxes and see what happens. surely ive got nothing to loose... and I will only become a better electrician haveing to solve problems hands on, not haveing someone to help you out.

 

[stan794]

£300 for the year is no where near enough, I am currently doing that a month and that is keeping me busy. Don't print your own leaflets they will always look naff compared to a decent printed leaflet, think about it, when you get a cheap leaflet through your door where does it go.

 

[i=p/u]

in the reading pile beside toilet roll, for when the kids swinging off curtains

 

[lofty84]

Incorrect.

1) Can you complete the work and leave the installation in a safe condition so as not to endanger those using it?
2) Do you know how to prove this by the inspection, testing and certification procedure?
3) Do you have the insurances REQUIRED BY LAW in case of things going wrong?
Your customer service skills come a very poor second to the foregoing imho

Trev I have to agree that this is much much more important. Im pretty cautious and without trying to tempt fate (lies on wooden floor) havent given myslef or anyone else a electric shock and feel confident that I would not leave something in an unsafe manner. Ive done my fair share of testing and there is always my onsite guide to refer to if I get stuck as well as past test sheets that I photo coppied and kept just incase I ever need to jog my memory. As I say I should always have someone on the other end of the telephone line if I become stuck (fingers crossed there avaliable exactly when I need them !) and I would have no shame in asking for advise/help on here. I will however not take on something that is a bit much for me. The way Im looking at it is there is no better way to make sure you no what your doing then to through yourself in at the deepend. Its probably amazing how fast you learn things you need to know when you are the one the customer comes to.

I admitably didnt have the best apprenticeship and ive been able to learn alot more with the gang im with now, the thing is they have had a few builders put back major works which would have given us all enough to do but as it is they are all out there doing there own little bits and pieces leeping themselves ticking over whilst they wait for these to start up. I could I suppose find work with another electrical firm but the last one I worked with put me of a bit, I felt that they were very that will do on the majority of electrical projects I was sent out with someone to do and was constantly thinking I cant beleive the customer is happy with this. when there wasnt an electrical work in I found myslef bein sent into london to help with the maitenance of a building they won the contract for. whilst there I dont think I did anything electrical, other then strip some strip lights of ballasts and chockes etc. I much prefer working in the domestic environment for the home owner as for one you are not asked to do things that arent electrical and two its more satisfying as they get really happy when uve done what they wanted,

I admit that I am still a bit green and could do with some more experience, the thing is I cant sit about waiting for these big jobs to come through, as unlike them I dont have my own customers who I can do my own private work for.

My options I think are to ring up all the electricians in my area and say im a fully registered self employeed sparks who came out of college last year, and just say tot hem that if if they have any projects comeing up that they can see the need for an extra pair of hands with but dont want the hassle of taking on someone full time as after that job they might not have another 2 man one for months then give me a call. the bennefits of this are that I will make some more contacts and aquire more knowledge andd experience. I might even end up doing something ive never seen heard of done before. the negatives are that it will be like my current situation I will have to accept that the guy whos job it is will want to make somethig on me, thus I will be taking home less money.

or try and find some of my own work so that I can atleast have 2 days a week where im on 120 a day and the rest on say 60 -70.

I was told a while ago being a sparky was one of the only trades where you could get away without a van and if im honest I would much prefer a nice audi, bmw estate.

Insurance wise I believe its public liability insurance I will need to take out, for 2 millions pounds cover or there abouts ....

 

[Welchyboy]

No offence but you are the kind of people I'm quoting against and competing with most weeks(and making safe their cockups afterwards) and it really gets me down, I was working for someone else until I had practically mastered the work I install, how can you charge someone for a supposed professional job when you are basically learning on the back of their money/ property

So so wrong!

 

[jase]

If you're worried about the lack of having a van, just don't park your car right outside the clients house. Park maybe 1 street away, and if you need to return to it for kit or tools during the job just say... 'I need to go to my vehicle'. That way, you're not lying about having a van, and not drawing attention to the fact you have a car. Simples

Good luck with it, whatever you end up deciding.

I used to park outside next door but one to the house, not too far should i need to go to the car, if the client ever mentioned it or it came up in convo i used to say what a pain it was not being able to carry as much cos the van was in for MOT and needed a wheel bearing, lol, jackanory!!

 

[jase]

I just thought @ 12 ph I should appeal to a lot of people, maybee I should look at £15 ph, Im not sure what the standard is but I should imagine £25 to £30 so straight awayim half pric. as I say im not the fastest electerician in the world but with time Im sure that will come. I concider my self a bit of a perfectionist and have worked for one firm who were pretty slap dash so I no although quite slow I do a proper job that looks good.

Then maybe you should just work for this guy until you are faster, also being a perfectionist is fine if you are a quick perfectionist, but there is a balance between perfection and speed, A good job done quick will always earn you more than a perfect job done slow, £15ph is ok for a bit of cash work at the weekend for a friend of a friend, alongside a fulltime job, but to go it alone? forget it, you will need to charge £25 min, plus a markup on all your materials.

 

[jase]

cheers thats highlighted a major floor in my priceing, the thing is Im not as experienced as some out there and hense im a bit slower but probably a lot neater so I dont want to outprice myself.


whats the average hourly rate you all charge. I did a full rewire with one of my mates from college we charged my mate 1200 which I thought was a bit high

£1200 for a rewire, HIGH!!!???? were you working for free?????? cos some re-wires ive done have cost that in materials alone

 

[jase]

it was a 3 bedroom house and we got 600 each for 4 days work, mycollege mate did me a bigger favour then what I thought bythe looks of it. It kept my other mate happy as well.

I think im going to go for it

So you say you are not the fastest electrician in the world and a perfectionist but you did a re-wire in 4 days??

 

[RWJ]

You could always say you were fed up of having the Van broken in to so use your car and take all the tools out when not in use.
My mates a chippy he did exctaly that... after his van got turned over a couple of times he sold it and brought a cheap estate car.....7 years later still using the estate dust sheet covering tools, and it's never been broken in to!

 

[BlueToBits]

There's 2 distinct camps here. One camp is full of guys just starting out trying to scratch a living, the other (I include myself) is the 'seasoned veterans'.
I could ignore the first camp and let them continue with their £1000 rewires and £12 per hour rate, knowing that in a few months they will likely be back on the dole. This would be the best for my business and, I believe, the industry. Most of this first camp seems pre-occupied with their 2 year apprenticeships, qualifications, handing out a few hundred leaflets, what their vehicle looks like etc. All are things to consider, but is totally missing the point. None of this is worth a carrot if the business plan does not work. I don't mean "I plan to get up for work early and get home late". When working for yourself, your business skills are just as important as your technical skills. Perhaps more so, because you have less time to spend on them. Being self employed is a totally different ball game than working for wages. If you were treated by an employer the way you need to treat yourself to be self employed, you would be in the tribunal courts every week.

A successful and honest employer may charge his electrician out at £35 - £50 per hour, yet only pay less than half that to his electrician. It's not out of greed, or because he wants to exploit his staff:-

It's because that's what he needs to charge to keep the business solvent after taking all other costs into account.

Now read that sentence again.

That sentence summarises several tomes of reading and research. If he is too expensive he has to make cuts to remain competitive, if he is too cheap he operates at a loss and goes bust.

The same principles apply whether the business has one worker or a hundred thousand.

 

[Octopus]

Part of the problem is the fact that you can get "qualified" for £7-£8K but people never think about the next stage which is all the costs of starting up, and ensuring you have money in the bank whilst people take weeks to pay you.

A minimum to get started is probably about £5K plus a vehicle. Then you need to charge £25,hour minimum and hope you can get a couple of days per week work for the first year.

Using a car is not a problem either.

 

[lofty84]

Thankyou to everyone who has posted in this thread. I really appreciate all the words of advise and your opinions.

Unfortunatly I dont have 5k in saveings and I was sort of hopeing I wouldnt need to. Im lucky in that I dont have a mortgage or a family to look after so late payments although not ideal wont affect anyone else. Can I just ask though Murdoch as it a good oportunity to do so, why do you think I would need 5K before I even thought of takeing the plunge.

Other then a tester I have everything I could possibly need (well except for those rods). If it sounds like I am questioning you this is not what I am trying to do I am just asking why you feel this and seeing as you are out there doing it its going to be a valuable insight.

Maybee I need to look into being a subcontrator for other sparkys, how much do you think is a fair hourly rate given the fact that they still need to keep the company affloat

 

[Octopus]

The £5K figure was to set up inc tools, calibration, insurance, scheme registration, marketing, PPE, etc, etc.

Based on what you say you have every tool (except rods) that you can possbly need - are your sure?

I've always got a list of needs, wants and luxuries on the go.

Its more about you (and others) to sit down work out how you think you'll survive etc. If you don't have a handle on ALL your costs how on earth do you know if your proposed £12/hr will be enough??

 

[robd]

Good advice, phone round some accountants, most will offer to come round and spend some time with you going through some numbers, free of charge on the premiss that you go with them as your accountant if you do go on your own. For the record I did this last year and found it very usefull, I promiss you there will be loads of stuff you haven't even considered and going in blind and hoping for the best isn't the best idea. Also for the record I'm still on the books with a firm

 

[Knobhead]

I will add one thing about using a car. Some models used to have electric boot locks, Fords spring to mind. Unlock the doors and the boot unlocks, handy for the shopping, not so when your tools are in there. A friend had his camera kit in the boot and as he was sat at a junction a lad walked past the back of his car, simply opened the boot and legged it with 10 grand’s worth of kit.