Finding myown work

[lofty84]

I would like to start my own little comapny, whilst I like the the perks of being on the cards (sick pay, holidays etc) its hard to find a company that is willing to give you a perminant contract, my experiences say to me that they would sooner take you on on a self employed basis so they dont have the hassle and commitment that comes with haveing a permanent employee which is fair enough.

I think being my own boss will really suit me, im great with customers/clients and rather like the idea of only having myself to answer to, deciding what time I start and finish and how far awayfrom home Im prepared to travel. When your with a company if they have a job that is 2 hrs away you have to go to it even if it means leaveing at six and not getting back in untill 2 hours after u finish for the day. obviously this is all free time you give to the comapny.

At the moment I am currently working for a guy on self employeed basis haveing recently registered as self employeed, and he charges me out at a hourly rate which allows him to make a little something on me and give me a weekly wage. I dont have a problem with this as he finds the work and all ive got to do is complete the job so its fairly low stress and im learning under hiswind so to speak. I cant help thinking though that if I just bit the bullet and started to look for my own work eventually I would be better off. Im currently takeing home £300 a week. Im not the fastest electrician out there nor do I have alot of experience but I have served a 2 year apprenticeship whilst completeing my C&G 2330 and have also acheived my 2382 and as I say am pretty confident with my customer skills.

I am not partp registered or part of a scheme but plan to register with one by the end ofthe year. My boss at the moment has kindly said that if I decide to try and find my own work I can say that I am doing it in accordance with his company, which is very good of him. It will enable me to take on part p work (bathrooms and kitchens) and complete certificates.

I dont have a van unfortunatley but I dont think that means I cant start a business, its something I can work towards and get in the future, it might look a bit unprofesional turning up in a car but I can always explain to the customer that I am just starting out on my own and hopefully in time if I do well and am driven I will have one.

admitably I still turn up for jobs and become confussed but the way I see it I can do the basics like adding sockets, cookers, lighting, additional circuits etc, and Ive been told anything I am not to sure about I can ask him and he will either come and help me or tell me what I need to do which again is very nice of him. The best way to learn is to get out there on my own I feel and give it a go seeing as I have this security. He has offered to help me price jobs etc etc as well

I know guys do an 8week course and then go about finding there own work as some probably make more the £300 a week.

I live in surrey and was thinking of chargeing myself out @ 12 an hour (cash of course) so I can tryand make £100 a day. Even if work is slow and I can only find 3 days work each week, at least I am earning in three days what I use to earn in 5.

what do u think, should I go for it and make some business cards, flyers to post through people letter boxes and see what happens. surely ive got nothing to loose... and I will only become a better electrician haveing to solve problems hands on, not haveing someone to help you out.

 

[needasparks]

Interesting read this one, I'm obviously bias but I still think you get what you pay for when getting an Electrician, call me old fashioned but if you had a car problem would you let an unexperienced machanic touch it, and i would be concerned about what would happen if a job does not go the way you thought it would which costs money, OK we all get it wrong sometimes and just absorb the costs but doing this job on a shoestring budget will only go one way and thats cutting corners.
In this game its easy to get a bad name and theres no coming back from that. I just don't think enough thought has gone into the plan yet and more learning is required, even the park your horse in a differnt road comment should tell you something.
I'm still laughing at the shall i still charge if i fall though a ceiling bit.

 

[lofty84]

well I feel ive got the essentials, certainly enough to get me buy - except for a tester.

To get the ball rolling Ive been ringing around all of my local electricians offering to give them a hand if they need an extra pair of hands to complete a job, wether it befor a day two days or a week, It saves them the hassle of takeing someone on and the headache/commitment of finding them continuos work, and it seems to havebeen well received with plenty takeing down my number. This way they can just use me as and when they need me and seeing as im already self empoloyeed it saves them dealing with all the polarvar taking someone on no doubt entails. This will bennefit me as I will get no no more and more electricians in my area and build up my experience and it will also give me a bit of an insight into how they do business and hopefully I will be able to regognise the traits the busyier ones seem to have and likewise the un busy ones.

Im not sure how much to rent myself out for a few people have asked and ive said £70 a day but not sure if I should be asking for more, I dont want to put them of and at this price they should still expect me to be a little bit green which i admitably am.

If I can then find my own work for 1 or 2 days a week I can charge myself out at 20 ph to make up for the other days

 

[lofty84]

say I was to fall through a ceiling (which would cost £300 to repair) and the job the customer wanted doing cost £200. I would assume seeing as I had insurance which would take care of the repair bill it would be ok to ask for payment for the job. Admitably the customer may be a bit reluctant to pay me seeing as I had just destroyed there house and it might be a case of they would say they will pay me once things have been fixed. if not then surely one would not use there insurance to repair there ceiling. this is obviously not good for business but its a potential dilema I might face one day

ps im not to worried about being a sparky thatuses a car instead of a van and would not worry about parking outside there home in it. I would just be honest and say I cant afford a van just yet, if things go well I will buy one tho

 

[needasparks]

I do really wish you the best of luck as you do seem to have the right aptitude for a sparks but please try to get more work with others first as it will really up your skills allowing you to be more aware of things you will come across. So many people starting out have problems not recognising older equipment or wiring styles and the most simple job becomes a nightmare not having a good understanding of it before making changes to it which costs the customer and you more. Its great for us as we earn money putting stuff right as said earlier but I do really hate people making our trade look cheap as we all get painted with your brush.
I say this with all the best intensions.

 

[needasparks]

say I was to fall through a ceiling (which would cost £300 to repair) and the job the customer wanted doing cost £200. I would assume seeing as I had insurance which would take care of the repair bill it would be ok to ask for payment for the job. Admitably the customer may be a bit reluctant to pay me seeing as I had just destroyed there house and it might be a case of they would say they will pay me once things have been fixed. if not then surely one would not use there insurance to repair there ceiling. this is obviously not good for business but its a potential dilema I might face one day

Ok look at it a different way, lets say you get called to replace a socket in a loft for a tv booster, You may charge £40 and then you fell through the ceiling doing £300 damage. your insurance excess is £200, does it still look good for you, I'm not saying its going to happen and i truly hope it does not but you have to expect it may sometimes, now that now means your doing the next 4 days work for nothing as all your profit is gone.
Now we all have to eat so what corners are you going to cut for the next weeks work, you just have to look at the bigger picture.

 

[lofty84]

I do really wish you the best of luck as you do seem to have the right aptitude for a sparks but please try to get more work with others first as it will really up your skills allowing you to be more aware of things you will come across. So many people starting out have problems not recognising older equipment or wiring styles and the most simple job becomes a nightmare not having a good understanding of it before making changes to it which costs the customer and you more. Its great for us as we earn money putting stuff right as said earlier but I do really hate people making our trade look cheap as we all get painted with your brush.
I say this with all the best intensions.

I appreciate your comments on the matter needasparks

Personally I think there should be an industry standard hourly rate but at the end of the day there is always going to be someone willing to dothe job cheaper.

I got told once that if a sparks is busy and he doesnt particualy need the work/job he will charge a higher price so as to not get it and if he does its a bonus as the moneys really good, this will surely work for someone with no work/jobs on though.

 

[needasparks]

I appreciate your comments on the matter needasparks

Personally I think there should be an industry standard hourly rate but at the end of the day there is always going to be someone willing to dothe job cheaper.

I got told once that if a sparks is busy and he doesnt particualy need the work/job he will charge a higher price so as to not get it and if he does its a bonus as the moneys really good, this will surely work for someone with no work/jobs on though.

There is, its called working for someone. On your second point i think your looking through the wrong end of the telescope, If someones cheap you get a cheap job, if someones expensive one of two things happen, if it was worth the money people will pay and use again, if it was too expensive and not worth the money they call someone else.
Its like the old story of a carpenter charging a £1 per nail. its a penny to hit it but 99p to know how hard. if your a good sparks you will make it and have good customers and bad one wont last long as someone will always be cheaper.

 

[alarm man]

I got told once that if a sparks is busy and he doesnt particualy need the work/job he will charge a higher price so as to not get it and if he does its a bonus as the moneys really good, this will surely work for someone with no work/jobs on though.

to be professional you can price yourself out of a job you dont want/need,it wont work the other way round

 

[trev]

No test equipment? How do you propose to issue certificates for your work?
Calibrated reliable test gear is a must have, not a nice to have, or a luxury mate. Take a look at forum sponsors test-meter.co.uk you'll get a bit of a discount for being a member

 

[kayeno]

oh god...this is why im out of work.

 

[Welchyboy]

I appreciate your comments on the matter needasparks

Personally I think there should be an industry standard hourly rate...........

.

are you joking! ive worked with sparks that are so slow i can literally install twice what they can in a day and mine would be a better install too, why should i get paid the same as them?

where would be the incentive to do well and try hard if that was the case?...you only have to look at the attitude of the average agency worker to see why thats a bad idea

 

[Dave 85]

are you joking! ive worked with sparks that are so slow i can literally install twice what they can in a day and mine would be a better install too, why should i get paid the same as them?

where would be the incentive to do well and try hard if that was the case?...you only have to look at the attitude of the average agency worker to see why thats a bad idea

I think what he's suggesting is something akin to communism...
Well it worked for North Korea....

 

[Dave 85]

I've not read much of this thread but im gonna just say what I think.
The way I got into self employemnt was by working, self employed for another sparky, whilst training at night, and as I got more competent gradually taking on more private jobs. My main work was flexible which was handy so I could do as much/ little as I wanted. Once I had my 17th ed I registered for part P and then my 'boss' very conveniently went bust and moved away leaving me with his best client, that was 3 yrs ago and that client a kitchen/bathroom company still give me £25k+ work a year. I have now built up a good base of 50+ other repeat clients generally through word of mouth and the number is increasing constantly.


My point is, dont just stop working for your boss and hope all of a sudden you'll get 100 phone calls every year, it wont happen. You wanna phase him out slowly if he is willing to reduce your hours. It's nice of him to Part P your work, I had the same, but you wanna look to registering yourself sooner rather than later. It doesn't look good when you tell a client 'my old boss is coming round to check its ok'. As for a van, well I'd get one ASAP. Does your boss let you use a van of his, if so you can charge him more if you use your own. a car, unless estate is really no good for the job IMO. Bite the bullet and flog it, get a cheap van to start out.
Tester and power tools also a must.
TBH without 6-10k in your pocket you're gonna struggle to get going.

Also, and im sorry but talking about charging £12ph makes me question your business sense. Its a waste of time, only about £8 will end up in yor pocket at the most. I aim for £25-£30 on day rate and £30-£50 on price jobs. I'm nearly always busy, have no kids and I'm still not exactly rolling in it.

A lot of it comes down to-its not what you know, its who you know

Anyway I hope it works out for ya if you go for it, cos once you get rolling, it is, IMO a pretty awesome way to earn a living. You dont have to answer to anyone.

 

[Dave 85]

say I was to fall through a ceiling (which would cost £300 to repair) and the job the customer wanted doing cost £200. I would assume seeing as I had insurance which would take care of the repair bill it would be ok to ask for payment for the job. Admitably the customer may be a bit reluctant to pay me seeing as I had just destroyed there house and it might be a case of they would say they will pay me once things have been fixed. if not then surely one would not use there insurance to repair there ceiling. this is obviously not good for business but its a potential dilema I might face one day

ps im not to worried about being a sparky thatuses a car instead of a van and would not worry about parking outside there home in it. I would just be honest and say I cant afford a van just yet, if things go well I will buy one tho

Sorry for the triple post but I just spotted this one....
ANY PL insurance will usually have a £200 excess so it'd hardly be worth using for a £300 job. YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY IN THE BANK TO RUN A BUSINESS.

If you go around telling people that you have no money, you're just starting out and you're not that experienced, many will be reluctant to use you. You're a business man now, Im not for a second gonna tell you it pays to be dishonest, it doesn't, but it does pay to be selective about what you tell customers.

You're gonna need
Van: 3k
Tester: £750
Part P: £400
PL Insurance: £150
SDS Drill: £200
18v Drill: £250
Jigsaw/Skillsaw: £150
(dont buy cheap tools they are a waste of money)
Lead lights, ext leads, fixings, drill bits, van stock materials: £200
(I assume you have handtools)
Business cards: £50
Certificates: £50

I make that 5.2k already and a 3k van wont be very good.

Not trying to scare you off but you've gotta be realistic. You have to present yourself well from the very beggining as if you want new clients you HAVE to appear professional.

 

[Octopus]

Sorry for the triple post but I just spotted this one....
ANY PL insurance will usually have a £200 excess so it'd hardly be worth using for a £300 job. YOU HAVE TO HAVE MONEY IN THE BANK TO RUN A BUSINESS.

If you go around telling people that you have no money, you're just starting out and you're not that experienced, many will be reluctant to use you. You're a business man now, Im not for a second gonna tell you it pays to be dishonest, it doesn't, but it does pay to be selective about what you tell customers.

You're gonna need
Van: 3k
Tester: £750
Part P: £400
PL Insurance: £150
SDS Drill: £200
18v Drill: £250
Jigsaw/Skillsaw: £150
(dont buy cheap tools they are a waste of money)
Lead lights, ext leads, fixings, drill bits, van stock materials: £200
(I assume you have handtools)
Business cards: £50
Certificates: £50

I make that 5.2k already and a 3k van wont be very good.

Not trying to scare you off but you've gotta be realistic. You have to present yourself well from the very beggining as if you want new clients you HAVE to appear professional.

PLUS you need a business bank account with a couple of grand in it for working capital, paying bills, fuel, suppliers, etc when your clients drag their feet paying you. Oh and yes you need to make a NETT profit before you can take any money yourself.