Fire rated clips - any suggestions?

[Octopus]

So @FLICK ...... you’ve been dishing out the dumb rating like confetti

But offering up no opinions of your own

Sad really .......

 

[DPG]

Have you kicked his dog or summat Murdoch?

 

[Octopus]

Have you kicked his dog or summat Murdoch?

Ha ha ... that’s funny

No idea who he is and just reinforces why this rating has no place on this forum ....

 

[Malcolm Broomfield]

Excellent response and says it all, for those looking for cables for Twin and Earth have a look at SWA they have a number of different clips by different manufacturers that can be used.

 

[Octopus]

Excellent response and says it all, for those looking for cables for Twin and Earth have a look at SWA they have a number of different clips by different manufacturers that can be used.

Hum ......... which response? Which post #?

 

[Malcolm Broomfield]

Regs simply put the onus on you..and if you expect step-by-step guidance then you will get the same response as DIYers get on here...
Question: If I install cables in this location, is there a risk they might cause an obstruction in the event of fire?
Answer: Yes, they might. Thus, I will install them, to the best of my ability and with the appropriate fixings, so as to minimise that risk.
If I doubt my ability...to assess or install...then I will seek expert advice, and having sought and obtained that advice, or having assessed and made my own decision, I will record that so I may answer any questions at a later date.

If I am unhappy with that, I will not install.



This post attached by Pirate is the one I praised, it sets out what we should all do in the same circumstances. post number 60

 

[acvc]

I agree with you Bellendian.

Note 3 of 521.10.202 states,

"This regulation precludes, for example, the use of non-metallic cable-clips or cable-ties as the sole means of support where cables are clipped direct to exposed surfaces ........".

I take this to mean that above a plasterboard ceiling is acceptable.

 

[Malcolm Broomfield]

Having been around court cases and H & S prosecutions for many years explain how would you write a risk assessment that says this unknown type of plasterboard will be my only means of support for the cables I install?
There is no interpretation of this that could stop a case of corporate manslaughter against you if a firefighter or escaping person was trapped in the cables and subsequently died.
If you first fix before the ceiling goes up, you clip the cables in place or run them through the joists what is the difference?

 

[Darkwood]

Coincidence - I am currently wiring a full factory fire system out, its all surface in P clips and screwed to fire-board, the floors are divided by concrete and there are no ignition sources within the created void so my risk assessment is simple and I have omitted all detectors from the voids which due to there size would usually need detectors installed, saving about 3k in labour and gear.

 

[Richard Burns]

Having been around court cases and H & S prosecutions for many years explain how would you write a risk assessment that says this unknown type of plasterboard will be my only means of support for the cables I install?

The risk assessment would be that BS7671 specifically permits the installation method of "no fixings" for the cable type being installed, therefore this is acceptable.

 

[Malcolm Broomfield]

An answer to Darkwood #69. the voids may need detection because they allow smoke to travel undetected especially if the void is sealed with an intumous sealant and has sealed or no access points, in this case, the smoke would remain trapped in the void and undetected until the heat/flames break through.

Richard Burns #70. I, as you would expect, would disagree completely
to me the regulations, past custom and practice all lead to fixing the cables correctly. I state this as my interpretation only and it is the guidance all of the electrical contractors I support are following.

In no way is this intended to bring the wrath of others onto my head from other forum members.
As stated earlier I am here to support, advise and give my professional support only.

 

[Richard Burns]

Richard Burns #70. I, as you would expect, would disagree completely
to me the regulations, past custom and practice all lead to fixing the cables correctly. I state this as my interpretation only and it is the guidance all of the electrical contractors I support are following.

It is certainly your choice to disagree with the regulations, especially as the specific permission is informative, and for you and others to follow alternative guidance that is in excess of the regulations.
There is almost no chance of this being considered in any way a failure.
However if you are to consider a risk assessment from a compliance point of view it could not be considered inappropriate to follow the information in BS7671 to the letter.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Bloody hell, is the plasterboard debate still rumbling on?

 

[Malcolm Broomfield]

We will leave it here but plasterboard is NOT a means of supporting cables.

 

[Octopus]

We will leave it here but plasterboard is NOT a means of supporting cables.

But for lots of cowboys ......... is it