fit for purpose?...i think not...

[Richard Burns]

Re: PartP...who is responsible

OK The building regulations are not clear on this one (surprise!)

In relation to Electrical work only; The building regulations (as amended!!) state:

A person intending to carry out building work in relation to which Part P of Schedule 1 imposes a requirement is required to give a building notice or deposit full plans where the work consists of—
(a) the installation of a new circuit;
(b) the replacement of a consumer unit; or
(c) any addition or alteration to existing circuits in a special location.”;

A person intending to carry out building work is not required to give a building notice or deposit full plans where the work consists only of work—
(a) described in column 1 of the Table in Schedule 3 if the work is to be carried out by a person described in the corresponding entry in column 2 of that Table


i.e. you must give a building notice or full plans unless the work its carried out by a CPS member and the work is in their remit.
Who exactly a person intending to carry out building work is, this is the key.
At other points in the regulations they state a person who carries out building work...

A guidance circular regarding the third party inspection scenario states that where the third party informs them of non compliance with building regulations that:
This should enable local authorities to be aware of where they may need to take enforcement action, which would be against the installer.


In this case it is clear that enforcement would be taken against the installer not the building owner.

In more guidance relating to appeals, etc. it states that the those wanting to appeal can be:

Anyone proposing to carry out building work - including property owners, designers, builders and professional advisers

In the charges regulations a person to whom a charge can be applied is a relevant person, defined as:


“relevant person” means—
(a) in relation to a plan charge, inspection charge, reversion charge or building notice charge, the person who carries out the building work or on whose behalf the building work is carried out;
(b) in relation to a regularisation charge, the owner of the building; and
(c) in relation to chargeable advice, any person requesting advice for which a charge may be made pursuant to regulation 5(2).


Based on these pieces of information I would say that there is joint responsibility.
Someone must inform Building Control and that someone can be owners, designers or builders and the charges can be applied to the owners or the person carrying out the work.

 

[telectrix]

Re: PartP...who is responsible

but since when has fitting a new CU entailed any form of "building work". CUs are not made of bricks.

 

[telectrix]

Re: Part P is not a qualification

but then it would become useful, inasmuch as you can wipe your arse with it.

 

[telectrix]

Re: the schemes...their not about safety or quality of work...are they...

From the EAS 2012 scheme document it seems not as these are the requirements for action on receipt of a complaint:

22. COMPLAINTS ABOUT AN ASSESSED ENTERPRISE’S ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION WORK
22.0 The Certification or Registration Body shall have procedures in place to deal with complaints in a timely manner.
22.1 Where a complaint against an Assessed Enterprise cannot be resolved by the Enterprise and the complaint is subsequently received by a Certification or Registration Body indicating that the work undertaken by the Assessed Enterprise, or sub-let by the Assessed Enterprise, does not meet the requirements of the relevant standards listed in Appendix 2, the Assessed Enterprise shall be required to provide facilities for inspections to be carried out by the Certification or Registration Body, including test equipment and access to the work to be inspected.
22.3 Where, as a result of such inspections, it is shown to the satisfaction of the Certification or Registration Body that the standard of the work is below that required; the Assessed Enterprise shall be required, at its own expense, to take remedial action within a specified time as notified to it by the Certification or Registration Body.
12
22.4 The Certification or Registration Body shall investigate complaints about an Assessed Enterprise’s Electrical installation work where:
22.4.1 the work was undertaken within the scope of the Assessment Certificate; and
22.4.2 the work was undertaken within the last two years or was undertaken since the date of issue of the Assessment Certificate, whichever is the shorter period.
22.£££££. providing the £500s keep coming in, all the above shall not apply

The other requirement from the minimum technical standards document 2014 also does not seem to be in place..

The Competent Person Scheme Operator shall have systems in place to ensure that each registered enterprise has sufficient competent individuals to ensure the compliance of the work undertaken by each registered enterprise, that work is certified only by competent individuals who have demonstrated the required competence and have had sufficient involvement to do so. The work of each competent individual shall be periodically randomly monitored by the scheme operator to check on its compliance.23. holy ysh1t. we gotta protect our cushy jobs
.

corrected there 4U.

 

[telectrix]

Re: the rackets...why are we paying them?

what's wrong with Blunderland?

 

[telectrix]

Re: the standards required for scheme menbership...

steady on Glenn. there's only a limited number of toys in the pram.resent:

 

[Adam W]

Re: Part P is not a qualification

They're referring to the City & Guilds 2393.

 

[Pete999]

Re: the scams

Not in any of them, but from what Ive seen UGH

 

[ian.settle1]

Re: Part P is not a qualification

Because they are gullible then fall for the spiel of the salesman and do not do any research before they depart with their cash.

Wonder what would happen if one of them after being told it was a qualification which we all know it isn't, had the balls to take one of these parasitic training companies to court for misselling like what has happened over PPI?

 

[happysteve]

Re: Part P is not a qualification

They're referring to the City & Guilds 2393.

(From the City & Guilds 2393 web page): "You'll demonstrate what you've learned through an open-book, multiple-choice online assessment." Quality.

 

[Rockingit]

Re: Part P is not a qualification

They're referring to the City & Guilds 2393.

Which states:

"Work in building construction or as a domestic electrician? Familiarise yourself with important building requirements and compliance methods with the Certificate in Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings. The Certificate in the Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings is for those working in the building trades and others who need to know how electrical installations in homes can affect the building construction. You should be a qualified electrician or a qualified individual in an allied trade. You should also be practicing your trade in England and Wales, as there are different regulations governing Scotland and Northern Ireland."

 

[UNG]

Re: they sit about & get our money....for nothing..

It's one of the downsides of the .com revolution anybody can set up a website and make all sorts of claims and promises.
It doesn't occur to people that the good sparks don't need to advertise or buy work from these scam sites I cringe every time I see their tacky adverts

 

[UNG]

Re: Part P is not a qualification

Which states:

"Work in building construction or as a domestic electrician? Familiarise yourself with important building requirements and compliance methods with the Certificate in Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings. The Certificate in the Building Regulations for Electrical Installations in Dwellings is for those working in the building trades and others who need to know how electrical installations in homes can affect the building construction. You should be a qualified electrician or a qualified individual in an allied trade. You should also be practicing your trade in England and Wales, as there are different regulations governing Scotland and Northern Ireland."

And that is the City & Guilds biggest downfall it sets requirements then just turns a blind eye cos exam fees = income and policing their standards would cost them money that they can't recover from anyone

 

[Octopus]

Re: they sit about & get our money....for nothing..

Dan could do us all a favour and set up a section for Joe Public to post "jobs" they need doing.

Wouldn't take much to do BUT I doubt many people would do it.


Just lately I've noticed that trades people I know who are 100% reliant on Check-a-trade aren't winning much business - I think its because it attracks the "less savory" type of client who WILL shop around, and around, and around for the cheapest deal!

 

[Richard Burns]

Re: PartP...who is responsible

But in the building regulations "building work" is defined and includes: the provision, extension or material alteration of a controlled service or fitting.
If Part P covers the work then this defines a controlled service or fitting.