Banning stuff is nonsense. Where do you stop? Nanny State-ism!!!
It's all about 'Personal Responsibility' to me.
If someone wants to put their life, and others around them, at risk, that's their business and conscience to wrestle with.
Who am I to tell anyone what they can and cannot do?
Yeah...NOBODY! :-)
 
I'm totally with people on the whole 'nanny state' business. I hate nanny states as much as anyone. I just can't see the point in trying to upskill the industry if it's going to be business as usual for every Electrical Trainee out there anyway?
 
Banning stuff is nonsense. Where do you stop? Nanny State-ism!!!
It's all about 'Personal Responsibility' to me.
If someone wants to put their life, and others around them, at risk, that's their business and conscience to wrestle with.
Who am I to tell anyone what they can and cannot do?
Yeah...NOBODY! :-)
And thereby hangs the nub of the problem,in these days of H&S and nanny state people have lost the capability to think for themselves,Billy falls out of a tree and breaks his arm,now it's not Billy's fault oh no,it's either the fault of the tree owner for planting it or someone else's fault for not telling Billy not to climb the tree.
 
Erwin skelton; fair play you were invited to the parliamentary thing & went along, shame you were not so vocal on the day mate.
 
DIY Daves have been around from time immemorial, they haven't been a problem in the past and i don't see them being any major problem now. The typical DIY Dave would have to be complete and utter idiot in the first place, to even attempt a CU change. I'd go as far as saying that very few DIY'ers go that far.

But there surely has to be an increase due to the use of forums, you only have to look across different boards to see the questions relating to cu swaps.
 
Didn't really get the chance fella. We were asked not to repeat each other, Mr Morris did most of the talking and I agreed with most of it. I gave a brief account of my thoughts on the current situation, mostly in line with what had already been said. Mr Pollock gave the most damning evidence having been a Electrical Trainee himself prior to getting fully qualified, evidence I could not give. What exactly could I have added other than the answers to the questions that were directed at me? They asked me about enforcement so I answered, I wasn't going to go off on one about 5WWs at that point as that would not have addressed the question asked. They asked me about solutions and I answered. We only had an hour and most of that was taken up by Mr Morris talking about the schemes dirty behaviour and Mr Judson talking about nonsense.

I didn't see you there???
 
Certain electrical goods mate.

The more I've thought about this over time the more I've started to come round to the idea that it would be a bad idea to ban the sale of all electrical equipment to the general public. Lights, switches, sockets etc.. I was thinking that it's fair to say that a competent DIYer is well within his rights to change a socket or switch. Well, that was until the other day. The other day I was carrying out a periodic inspection in a property where the lighting circuits had no cpc yet just weeks ago the owner had gone round and changed every socket, light and switch for metal ones. Every light switch and light fitting had to be changed back to plastic. He was completely oblivious to the danger posed when he carried out the work.

And you say banning is a bad idea?!

I fail to see how this will come back to bite the spark in the backside??

Ok, I understand the need for the general public to be able to get hold of plug tops, fuse wire, cable clips and bits and bobs, but distribution boards and cable?? No.

In my opinion, the best solution is a mandatory licence, restricted only to those with a core qual, an NVQ3 (or equivalent) and an AM2, and the sale of electrical equipment restricted only to those with the aforementioned licence. The holder of the licence would be obligated to keep up to date with current regs and maybe sit an AM2 style assessment with an additional few written papers every five years or something.

The one bad thing with this style system I can see would be retired sparks being unable to carry out work in their own homes. I suppose the whole idea however would be about doing the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people though. A shame a few thousand retired sparks can't carry out work on their own homes without keeping up with the licence requirements, but at the same time many hundreds of thousands of people are prevented from potentially killing themselves and their families??

Whatever happens and whatever your current view, one thing is for sure, and that is that a serious debate involving a diverse range of people from across the industry needs to happen. From the big companies to the small, from the H&SE to the general public, from the writers of the regs to the followers of them, from the fire fighters picking up the pieces of dodgy DIY work to the spark putting right the wrongs of the 5WWs. We as an industry, as a collective of people with varying experiences and skills, we need to sit down in a massive room and decide as a gorup what is best for the public, not the private money grabbing scam companies profiting enormously from the misery of others!!!


Well he wasn't competent then was he?
 
My point exactly WP. My dad could change a socket or switch just fine, he's more than able to provide a sound termination and fold the cables back neatly. Would he know not to fit a metal switch if there was no earth present? I doubt it. No matter how anyone tries to spin it, no DIYer will ever be truly competent in the fullest sense of the word.
 
Does anyone remember the Electium recall , I went round all my jobs and changed loads of MCBs . I bet theres still loads out there that haven't been changed ..
 
Erwin skelton; fair play you were invited to the parliamentary thing & went along, shame you were not so vocal on the day mate.

Just occurred to me... You really have some kind of bee in your bonnet about me not being as vocal as the other four at the select committee hearing don't you? You a mate of Steptoe?

What's your real issue with me fella? You fancy airing it here?
 
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My point exactly WP. My dad could change a socket or switch just fine, he's more than able to provide a sound termination and fold the cables back neatly. Would he know not to fit a metal switch if there was no earth present? I doubt it. No matter how anyone tries to spin it, no DIYer will ever be truly competent in the fullest sense of the word.

Trouble is, no-one reads instructions fully! :book:
 
erm anyone know anything about this?

presumably they mean all new 'fuse boards', not all fuse boards?

Regulation 421.1.200 has been introduced and will require switchgear assemblies, including consumer units, to have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible, or not readily combustible, material, or to be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure that is constructed of non-combustible, or not readily combustible, material.

This new Regulation is being introduced to help to protect against fire that can result from the overheating of connections within consumer units. Overheating can arise from loose connections and connections that have not been made correctly, for example, the connection of a cable over the insulation.
 
Seeing as they are already made from non combustible material, perhaps they should now concentrate on a plastic that doesn't melt down to a blob on the floor!! lol!!
 
As with all these sensationalist stories where statistics are quoted they are always a little light on fact how many incidents were there in the intervening years or does that not make a good story

As with a lot of statistics holes can be found in them while the "fuseboard" may have gone up in flames for the statistic to have any meaning the cause needs to be established. How many times has a customer gone out bought a 10.++ Kw shower and expect you to replace their old lesser Kw shower when it's pointed out that the cable and possibly the pull switch are not rated to run the new shower you are seen to be being a jobsworth and creating work and expense.
There are a lot of bigger better appliances out there these days that people are probably connecting to existing wiring and accessories without any concern or thought for the increased load coupled with the fact that very few people get their electrics checked every 5 - 10 years as recommended you have a recipe that once it's been baking for a number of years it all goes wrong with a fire

Without hard facts this story needs to be taken with a large pinch of salt rather than pointing fingers and apportioning blame by guess work. No where does this state they are all domestic incidents so if we are going to jump to conclusions exactly how many fuseboards (domestic, commercial and industrial) are installed in the LFB area and 253 of them went on fire or were they just called as a precaution and it is counted as a fire call. Been to quite a few smouldering boards in my time that had no intervention from the fire brigade that would never make the stats cause only me and the customer knew about it
 
Some muppet at the IET has genuinely taken what the ESC has had to say about the matter seriously in order for this ridiculous requirement to be implemented. It is afterall the ESC that has been pushing for this rule, I wonder why??? An ar$e covering excersise springs to mind...

The fact is, if you've connected up a DB with dodgy terminations, regardless of the material the thing is made of it's going to burn! The circuit protection afterall is plastic isn't it, and this protrudes outside of the enclosure?!?!

The way to stop the rise in 'fusebox' fires is by having skilled people install them!!! No amount of trying to paint over the cracks or trying to divert our attention away from the real issue is going to actually solve the problem.
 
Not a friend of yours either then? ...lol!!

I must admit, he is the only daft bugger i know of, that has ditched his DNO TN-S earth in favour of a 50 ohm Ra TT rod!! It's safer don't you know!!! lol!!

LOL!

And actively advocates the installation of 2 foot rods!?!?!?

The fella is a prize muppet! A wind up merchant of the highest order! Like a fly buzzing round yer head, you just want to swat him.
 
Statistics can be manipulated and or interpreted to say whatever you want them to say, depending on who you are, who you are working for, and what message they want to highlight. It is extremely rare to find any report/survey based around statistics that have been compiled/written by an author that is a completely unbiased 3rd party.

Me, i don't trust a word of any of them unless they can provide a traceable bona fide data line. Most cannot or outright refuse to divulge the full data used to compile these mostly fabricated reports.

Now how does that old saying go about Statistics?? ...lol!!
 
All those who agree that Electrical Trainee's are to blame for everything that goes wrong electrically, anywhere in the world say Aye: 'Aye' 'Aye' 'Aye'
 
Ill not bother changing the board in my house then! Good old 3036's.


1hf2w9.jpg


And yes, the meter has a low reading for the age, it rolled around the clock to 0.
 
Does anyone remember the Electium recall , I went round all my jobs and changed loads of MCBs . I bet theres still loads out there that haven't been changed ..

There are & that's why Fire crews (here anyway) carry the recall notification sent out by Electrium.
When they do a domestic fire inspection the type of cu is looked at & if on the list the home owner is shown the recall notice & advised to get in a sparks to check it.
They also check how cluttered with combustible items the area (under stairs in a cupboard) around the cu is & advise a clear out.
 
Didn't really get the chance fella. We were asked not to repeat each other, Mr Morris did most of the talking and I agreed with most of it. I gave a brief account of my thoughts on the current situation, mostly in line with what had already been said. Mr Pollock gave the most damning evidence having been a Electrical Trainee himself prior to getting fully qualified, evidence I could not give. What exactly could I have added other than the answers to the questions that were directed at me? They asked me about enforcement so I answered, I wasn't going to go off on one about 5WWs at that point as that would not have addressed the question asked. They asked me about solutions and I answered. We only had an hour and most of that was taken up by Mr Morris talking about the schemes dirty behaviour and Mr Judson talking about nonsense.

I didn't see you there???

Fair enough & no you didn't see me there................not that it matters if I was there or not, I did how ever watch the session & as such made my own conclusions about the input of all from both sides of the table.
 
Just occurred to me... You really have some kind of bee in your bonnet about me not being as vocal as the other four at the select committee hearing don't you? You a mate of Steptoe?

What's your real issue with me fella? You fancy airing it here?

No bee in my bonnet with you at all, just think (as somebody else has stated) you were rather quick to imply (not with words but you and others know what you meant)that Electrical Trainee are to blame for the five fold increase in cu fires.

The select committee thing, well your rather forceful here with words & views but on the day you were more Percival than Rommel & that is Just my view. Could I have done better? who knows but I didn't put myself up for it but you did , so hats off to you I suppose.

A mate of Steptoe? No more or less than you or I are mates.

Real issue with you, how can I have an issue with you when I don't know you from steptoe?
what I do have is my own opinion (as you & others also have) & from what I see there does seem to be some Electrical Trainee (that normaly rolls into DI) baiting/bashing, for the woes & downfalls with in the trade & a minority here soon jump on the bashing bandwagon.
Yes some of their work is way below expected standards, but the same can be said of some time served individuals & larger contractors for example, a few months ago I replaced a db in a fire station due to a burnout/loose neutral on the main switch that was less than a year old, installed on a refurb by an Approved contractor.
The casing flared & scorched/sooted the wall, not a Electrical Trainee or DI in sight, but it was an electrical fire in a cu.
Because its not a domestic job done by a Electrical Trainee I suppose it doesn't count in the five fold increase headlines?
 
Let's not forget the shyte quality of the terminal screws and the insufficient thread in the bus bars either.


its not just me then I have made suggestions to several manufacturers to make the screw torx heads aint going to strip or be loose with them
 
Does anyone remember the Electium recall , I went round all my jobs and changed loads of MCBs . I bet theres still loads out there that haven't been changed ..

oh yes just put a post up found 3 installs with recalled mcb's in
 
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by not clever
Fair enough & no you didn't see me there................not that it matters if I was there or not, I did how ever watch the session & as such made my own conclusions about the input of all from both sides of the table.



Meaning what


Meaning I watched it & had my own thoughts about it & what was said.

How about......

If you have issues with Electrical Trainee & the like why not start shouting about the root cause, such as the training offered by some of these training companies that they then purposely aim at those who think 5 weeks is enough to become an electrician & yes that includes the likes of the NICEIC & some forum sponsors that can be found on electrical forums.

Then (and this is one of the tings I took out of the select meeting) how about asking why is the whole part P fiasco not being policed/enforced, yet use a logo when not entitled to you'll get hung drawn & quartered! That was hardly mentioned by the trade side of the room in the meeting.
 

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D Skelton

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Five fold increase in fusebox fires
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Security Alarms, Door Entry and CCTV (Public)
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