UK Fixed appliance wiring colours - is non-standard ok?!?

[Sparky Sukey]

Hi All

Was fitting a radiator with an electric heating element (the towel rail heater type) and obviously it makes more sense to connect as a fixed appliance, rather than via a standard plug.

However, flex with a standard (moulded on) plug is what it came with - odd, I thought, given that it's a towel rail heater and who's going to be able to plug that in in a bathroom...?!?). So obviously I cut off the plug ready to connect to a switched fused spur setup.

But inside the innocent looking outer sheath are 3 colours I've never seen before in UK flex: brown, grey and black! I didn't think that happened outside of 3 core+E cable?!?

So my immediate thought was, what is what (and tried to crack open the plug to see connections - pointless exercise...)

But now thinking -

1) was it legal for this to be sold as in the UK with non-standard flex colours (even though they were sealed into a plug?) I presume I've invalidated the guarantee by cutting off the plug.

2) I know that all portable appliances have to be sold with plugs attached now, but what about the opposite for fixed appliances?! Is there anything specific to protect us from the bleedin' obvious in this case?

3) if I did identify the colours correctly, would it be legal/within regs to fit that appliance to the installation given that it has those wiring colours? (If I didn't supply them and if everything else tests ok?)

Note: the appliance itself is a sealed unit so I can't just open it up and rewire it...

Second note: doing the job for a friend so can't/don't want to just walk away and refuse to fit it without good reason!

Thanks all

 

[westward10]

Is there a green/yellow or doesn't it need one?

 

[Sparky Sukey]

Is there a green/yellow or doesn't it need one?

No there's nothing CPC-esque at all! And yes it does need one!

 

[Jock from the north]

Hi All

Was fitting a radiator with an electric heating element (the towel rail heater type) and obviously it makes more sense to connect as a fixed appliance, rather than via a standard plug.

However, flex with a standard (moulded on) plug is what it came with - odd, I thought, given that it's a towel rail heater and who's going to be able to plug that in in a bathroom...?!?). So obviously I cut off the plug ready to connect to a switched fused spur setup.

But inside the innocent looking outer sheath are 3 colours I've never seen before in UK flex: brown, grey and black! I didn't think that happened outside of 3 core+E cable?!?

So my immediate thought was, what is what (and tried to crack open the plug to see connections - pointless exercise...)

But now thinking -

1) was it legal for this to be sold as in the UK with non-standard flex colours (even though they were sealed into a plug?) I presume I've invalidated the guarantee by cutting off the plug.

2) I know that all portable appliances have to be sold with plugs attached now, but what about the opposite for fixed appliances?! Is there anything specific to protect us from the bleedin' obvious in this case?

3) if I did identify the colours correctly, would it be legal/within regs to fit that appliance to the installation given that it has those wiring colours? (If I didn't supply them and if everything else tests ok?)

Note: the appliance itself is a sealed unit so I can't just open it up and rewire it...

Second note: doing the job for a friend so can't/don't want to just walk away and refuse to fit it without good reason!

Thanks all

View attachment 119370

Is it copper conductors

 

[Sparky Sukey]

Is it copper conductors

Yep, the cores look standard - copper stranded 1.5mm2 and ok for the 1.2kw load

 

[Jock from the north]

Yep, the cores look standard - copper stranded 1.5mm2 and ok for the 1.2kw load

Is there a double insulated sign on heater,I've seen heaters come with a black pilot wire but never a 3 phase coulered cable.i suppose you could see if any of the cores are connected to body of heater

 

[Sparky Sukey]

No there's nothing CPC-esque at all! And yes it does need one!

I mean, I guess I could work out which one is the CPC by doing continuity test on all 3 in turn to exposed metal parts, and then hope for the best that the (digital) thermostat element isn't picky about polarity, but it's hardly ideal!

 

[Sparky Sukey]

Is there a double insulated sign on heater,I've seen heaters come with a black pilot wire but never a 3 phase coulered cable.i suppose you could see if any of the cores are connected to body of heater

No class

Is there a double insulated sign on heater,I've seen heaters come with a black pilot wire but never a 3 phase coulered cable.i suppose you could see if any of the cores are connected to body of heater

No class 2 symbol, and no access to connection (it's in a tiny sealed thermostat head, no like an open bar/convector heater)

 

[Jock from the north]

I mean, I guess I could work out which one is the CPC by doing continuity test on all 3 in turn to exposed metal parts, and then hope for the best that the (digital) thermostat element isn't picky about polarity, but it's hardly ideal!

No it's not ideal atol.do you have the make of the heater or is there a customer service number you can phone.

 

[Sparky Sukey]

No it's not ideal atol.do you have the make of the heater or is there a customer service number you can phone.

Yeah, I guess I will call the supplier.

Although I can see problems with that in that it was bought from a fancy radiator supplier, who then (it appears) source the electric elements separately and provide with those to be fitted. The radiator is basically being converted from central heated water to electric via the screw-in element.

I'd quite like to know if I can let rip at them for non-compliance, or if I need to tread carefully for help

 

[Jock from the north]

No class

No class 2 symbol, and no access to connection (it's in a tiny sealed thermostat head, no like an open bar/convector heater)

Yeah, I guess I will call the supplier.

Although I can see problems with that in that it was bought from a fancy radiator supplier, who then (it appears) source the electric elements separately and provide with those to be fitted. The radiator is basically being converted from central heated water to electric via the screw-in element.

I'd quite like to know if I can let rip at them for non-compliance, or if I need to tread carefully for help

I quite often phone tech help on there products and there normally pretty helpfully and usually I get straight thru.did you say the element was fixed or can it be replaced with a uk one of same wattage .you could send a pic of heater and element if you can

 

[westward10]

Throughout Europe the earth wire is identified with green/yellow. Is there a brand on it?

 

[Sparky Sukey]

I quite often phone tech help on there products and there normally pretty helpfully and usually I get straight thru.did you say the element was fixed or can it be replaced with a uk one of same wattage

Thanks, yep, will try them tomorrow and see what they say. And yes, as the element isn't integral to the rad, worst comes to the worst, it seems like that part can be changed out fairly easily. (Seems ridiculous for someone other than the supplier to have to foot the bill for that though!!)

 

[Sparky Sukey]

Throughout Europe the earth wire is identified with green/yellow. Is there a brand on it?

"E-towel" for the element part

 

[Sparky Sukey]

Throughout Europe the earth wire is identified with green/yellow. Is there a brand on it?

I know, right?!? But is it illegal for them to have supplied one without standard colours it is a UK supplier providing a product with a 3 pin plug....