Fixed Appliances--Again-No doubt

[Marnik]

Well have a look at the HSE website regarding this(which most company H&S people look at when determin wether to test or not to)
Then it may become apparent that even the HSE is trying to dumb down things!!!!

 

[sparkie_Al]

I have just done this 2377, which was in two parts, but I am interested to see that it will be split to three. I accept that all appliance connected to the fixed wiring is to be tested, but you can see that a line is being crossed here. If you take the fixed wiring to be just that, and the wording in the Electricity at work regulations being along the lines of "anything connected to convert /transmit etc" then every light fitting could be classed as "appliance"... if an extract fan is, then so is a Luminaire.
I bet that there would not be many that actually test the Nightstorage units.
I also would love to see a label on a shower... never seen one yet.
I wonder how these appliances would meet the touch current criteria... above 3.5mA would be guarenteed, so you would mark that separetly with another label......
I do EICR as well, so it would be interesting to see what directives are placed on larger units, but I think it is going to be a case of as in the 7671, interpretation, and that would lead you somewhere else altogether
Your Right BTW NIC are not interested!

 

[oldtimer]

I dont understand what you mean by "no proper guidance"

I have attached a copy of the IEE code of practice that states in black and white what is to be tested??????

Struggle to understand how people are justifying doing half a job?

Yes I totally agree with you but let me put it this way I do work for a couple of letting agents and they asked why dont you do PAT testing so thinking I beter get this I spent £700 on the equipment KT71 bundle (very good) and C&G 2377 so I got my costs together and mailed it off and they said we are getting this cheaper plus you dont have to test fixed appliances so the problem is how this is being perceived ie PAT testing means Portable only. I feel that it is the fault of the industry for not giving guidance on this by stating yes fixed appliances Cookers plus Storage heaters say every 2 years but the problem is if you were to be audited you will be told that there is a code of practise in force but I feel like a lone voice in a well plus it should not come from someone like me to bang the drum so we should have a central authority that defines what we should be doing. Although to be honest due to the BRB changing to the BGB and PIRs to EICRs it could be that as i mentioned in my previous post the tutor could have been right then next thing for them to tackle is ISI&TEE or PAT as everyone wabts to call it .

Talking about a name that sticks and maybe we should rename the forum section ISI&TEE formaly PAT testing

 

[Marnik]

Always been a grey area, and probably will.Untill there is proper defenition and regulation we will keep on asking questions like this.

 

[oldtimer]

Guys just to add I did not want this to be an addition to my previous mail when I was at this course the tutor mentioned the problem about testing fixed appliances because as he said you do not have to be an electrician to PAT test but and here is the problem they are wrestling with these guys who are not electricians cannot open up a FCU or a cooker switch to test say a built in oven or cooker because they are not qualified to isolate and disconnect this equipment.

Now before anybody says you are just being elite and having a pop at non electrician PAT testers trust I am not because I dont even want to do it but I need to add this service to my business and the best is that I am hoping for is that it pays me back the £900 I invested over the next 2 years and then after that its there if I need it.

So this is the nub of fixed appliance testing if they enforce it they could end up making non electrician PAT testers redundant hence why they appear to be keeping their heads down but whether we like it or not they are going to have to state their position but me thinks that will not happen unless some poor individual get electrocuted from a coffee machine or drinks dispenser . This may lead to another additional say 2378 course for non electrician PAT testers to get trained to isolate and open FCUs

 

[Marnik]

At the moment you don't have to be "Qualified" to do an EICR either, you only have to be "Competent"
Unfortunately in this industry of ours, they yet have to define who or what are qualified or competent??

 

[sparkie_Al]

I am in exactly the same position as "oldtimer". I have been asked to do PAT testing by a lettings agent, and I have spent out on a tester, and becuse I have been registered with NIC for a long time, I know they would want you to get the qualification that comes with it, just to cover them, and you.
Hopefully I will get my investmant back, within a year.
They will not stop the non-electrician, doing PAT testing, as a Definition of competant has been issued, in 7671, if nowhere else, and if this definition is met they are there.
I also think that if the fixed wired system is protected correctly, problems with ANY appliance should not arise, HH, S or otherwise.

 

[sparkie_Al]

Competancy is defined. Also every year you should have to prove you ability and understanding to an assessor from within the scheme organisation you are registered or approved by.

 

[Marnik]

[Competancy is defined. Also every year you should have to prove you ability and understanding to an assessor from within the scheme organisation you are registered or approved by.]

And who exactly do you think is going to do that? NIC - NAPIT - Elecsa are not interested in PAT (read previous ) Unless the scam providers are getting of their backsides and actually doing something pro-active, then nothing is going to change; ie; YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE QUALIFIED TO DO PAT TESTING OR INDEED IECR TESTING , You only have to be "COMPETENT" what ever that means???????

 

[Silly Sausage]

[Competancy is defined. Also every year you should have to prove you ability and understanding to an assessor from within the scheme organisation you are registered or approved by.]

And who exactly do you think is going to do that? NIC - NAPIT - Elecsa are not interested in PAT (read previous ) Unless the scam providers are getting of their backsides and actually doing something pro-active, then nothing is going to change; ie; YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE QUALIFIED TO DO PAT TESTING OR INDEED IECR TESTING , You only have to be "COMPETENT" what ever that means???????

Considering how notoriously difficult it is to gain 2391, maybe having that should be a minimum for doing I&T?

 

[Marnik]

Archy, you hit it bang on right! Only 2391 qualified people should assess , inspect and test appliances and installations!
No doubt some other forum members have different views on this. Tin Hat on

 

[Silly Sausage]

No doubt some other forum members have different views on this. Tin Hat on

Sod them!

I'd get more work if it was made a min req.

 

[Marnik]

Agree Archy

 

[UNG]

Competancy is defined. Also every year you should have to prove you ability and understanding to an assessor from within the scheme organisation you are registered or approved by.

Who assesses the assessors competency to carry out the assessment

 

[Adam W]

Who assesses the assessors competency to carry out the assessment

That would need to be assessed on a case by case basis.