Fixed Appliances--Again-No doubt

[Adam W]

The way these people seem to think is rather than considering whose responsibility it is to test a certain piece of equipment it's more a case of "it's not my problem".
A skilled electrician is familiar with the regs and more specifically the spirit of the regs, rather than knowing which specific reg prohibits what, and should have a certain degree of responsibility so will at least enquire as to whether specific arrangements have been made for any limitations. A PAT tester on the other hand who is essentially 'testing by numbers' and who comes out with lines like "the P is for Portable" is apparently shirking responsibility and potentially leaving equipment untested.
As I've said in another thread if I were a client getting testing done I'd rather just say to someone "test everything" instead of trying to establish who is going to test what, getting an electrician to disconnect fixed equipment so some PAT tester can test it before the electrician reconnects it.

 

[oldtimer]

Adam the test everything sounds good but its all down to cost the minute they put PAT testing into the hands of the semi skilled then this opened the floodgates to the 40p PAT test and as normal the Schemies are kicking the can down the road. As I was saying the lecturer I was speaking to was working from a technical college ie not one of those private mobs that say come to us and you will start at 8 and be qualified at 4 so he is in the know with regards to what are the "authorities" discussing re PAT testing and he highlighted the fixed appliance problem with regards to non electricians, the splitting of the qualification into 2 and maybe 3 parts down the road plus the renaming it to ISI&TEE as per the code of practise .

 

[Adam W]

I suppose the old adage "you get what you pay for" rings true here - you can pay silly money for testing, but it will only cover anything which can be unplugged.
This could be why people still ask electricians to PAT test.

 

[sparkie_Al]

Ok, I started the dreaded PAT testing this week, and the everything brigade will be pleased as I test everything, including dirty greasy free standing cookers and extractors and fridges alike.
I had Two that totally got me, one was a kitchen that had been installled with new appliances two weeks ago......tested though on the principles that (a) it was on the issued list. (b) just because it was all new and covered by guarentees...dont necessarily make it safe!
The second was a hob extractor that I could not find any power source for, but suspect that it was completely covered in above the units with a top pelmet, and taking it down I would of had to destroy a 12ft length........listed unit as not tested.

 

[Adam W]

I will proudly stand up and admit to being a member of 'the everything brigade' rather than one of those 'not my problem' shirkers.

 

[Jimmy Boy]

Out of interest does a C&G course on PAT cover how to disconnect a fixed appliance, including the full safe isolation and lock off procedure ? and the use of compliant testers, and everything needed to reconnect ? refitting an FCU to an appliance is I would argue a matter for someone that is competent to 17th. I'm not saying they shouldn't be done..but not sure the Janitor might best suited

 

[Adam W]

When I did the 2377 I was taught by the same tutor I had on a different day for my level 3 2330. He told the 2377 group that to test an appliance wired to a FCU you would need to get an electrician to disconnect it, then you could test it via one of those connection boxes with the 3 levers (can't remember the exact name of them right now) or by temporarily putting a plug on the end, then your electrician would reconnect it. I pointed out that it might be easier for the electrician just to do the whole lot and he agreed.
Obviously 'the correct' way to test this kind of appliance is a bit of a faff for a non-electrician, which I reckon is where the 'P is for Portable' argument comes from - if something is difficult to test the PAT tester might argue that it doesn't need to be tested.

I suppose it's a bit like pulling the service fuse to change a CU where a main isolator hasn't been provided - we shouldn't do it but it's a way of getting the job finished safely.

 

[oldtimer]

Yep agree Adam I just did the 2377 last November and as the tutor said this is causing them a lot of headaches as aparently they have agreed that a EICR/PIR covers the fixed wiring but the old term PAT testing did not include the fixed appliances and that the new In-service Inspection & Testing of Electrical Equipment will have to include this as they can no longer ignore as he put it the elephant in the room.

But years ago PAT testing was a really neat idea that would generate money for the industry and of course safety ie less people getting killed plus you could get semi skilled people to do the job to reduce costs . Only problem now is they can no loger ignore fixed appliances and at the same time they cannot train the semi skilled guy to go into a FCU because thats when they say that the regs kicks in and an electrician is required.

I also pointed out to him that we no longer have a PIR it is a EICR so why is the industry still calling it PAT when it should be II&TEE and he said well did you have a problem finding this course on our site and I said yes and he replied thats because you were trying to find a PAT course instead of the II&TEE (formally PAT) course that we advertise so expect changes he said