Flex for fixed wiring

[charlie76]

Would you suggest flex for fixed wiring on an EICR is a C3? The client has basically run flex from one socket to a surface socket (i.e. a glorified extension lead). However I would say this is fixed wiring.

What does 521.9.1 mean where it states "only where the the relevant provisions of the regulations are met"? Does this mean CCC, installation method, overload protection etc.

 

[Resu]

Oh here we go... Pete, the question arose because (if you read back) there are 2 such sockets, one on a plug top one wired into the back of a plug, both wired in flex. The original question was actually about flex not about whether or not this should be 1) defined as an extension lead and 2) should extension leads be part of an EICR.

I am quite aware that the EICR report is for the fixed wiring only which is why I questioned your response. You wrote a poorly worded and confusing answer (by your own admission) and then proceeded to question should I be doing this type of work because I responded to your post.

Its people like you that really make we want to quit this forum. I'm sure you may offer some modicum of advice on threads here and there and you may be respected by some of your fellow old school electricians forum buddies who also offer the same old type of condescending, non-constructive, off topic comment such as "should you be doing this sort of work".

I question whether you should be commenting in forums but this country is all about freedom of speech so I suspect even those who struggle to convey themselves in a civilised and educated manner must be allowed to provail. I ask that since you don't know me, my knowledge, my experience or anything else about me, you don't question my motive, you simply either respond to the original post, or don't comment.

@Spoon thanks for your discussion and input into this thread.

I believe a bit of confusion may be arising from your use of the word plug when you presumably mean socket.

If you are bothered about the one that is on a plugtop it might be worth noting it in the relevant section but it wouldn't necessarily warrant anything else in my opinion. (Edit: Lucien Nunes has made some valid points on this, difficult to gauge without seeing this particular example).

The one that's spurred:
Is the spur feeding a 1g or 2g socket?
Roughly how long is the spur?

 

[Spoon]

Technically, there's no doubt that they are. But I wonder how a non-technical householder would view a regular double-socket mounted on the wall, especially if the plug feeding it is hidden away somewhere. To them, perhaps it's just a wall socket. In a domestic environment there won't be an ISITEE program, so if you omit it from the EICR, it might be unsafe but the householder won't know this. If you point it out as a limitation, perhaps it would look a bit odd: "All your points are safe, although this one might not be; I haven't tested it because although the wiring is fixed to the wall, it's not part of the fixed wiring. If you want to know whether it's safe, you'll have to pay me to test it separately." We understand the logic but would they?

As for flex, are the socket terminals suitable for fine stranded / are the ends ferruled? Flex and T+E in the same terminal would be a no-no for me.

Very good points mate.
I'm industrial and was giving the OP my opinion about if it was fixed wiring or not. Others might disagree with my opinion.
Whats the norm for doing testing on domestics? Do you include extension leads all in the same test.
Again I can understand it from the customers point of view, if you don't. They will think they are getting ripped off. Whats the solution? Better explanation of the test beforehand?
There are sooooo many programs on TV about bad tradesmen that you guys are on your back foot from the off.

OP:

one on a plug top one wired into the back of a plug

I'm unsure about the full explanation mate. Do you mean that one is wired into a plug and the other is hardwired into the back of a socket?
If so then for the one hardwired into the back of the socket I would class as 'fixed wiring'

 

[Spoon]

As for you post #14:
Thanks for the thanks mate.
Now don't get me wrong but I consider @Pete999 to be a nice guy 99% of the time and he has earned my respect on here.. and it's bloody hard to get my respect.. As there are limited people I respect... I'm just a grumps sod..
Texts can always be taken out of context. That's the crud things about texts. I just imagine everyone wearing a mankini while running through a field of flowers.... Texts always look better that way...

 

[westward10]

I would personally not include plugged appliances or plugged additions however I may comment on the lack of socket outlets and the means by which additional outlets have been enabled. I see no problem with flexible cords connected direct to the fixed wiring provided it it suitably installed, terminated and restrained at points of entry.
If any of the "extension leads" were seen to be visibly dangerous there is every chance I would make a comment in the Report.

 

[Pete999]

Oh here we go... Pete, the question arose because (if you read back) there are 2 such sockets, one on a plug top one wired into the back of a plug, both wired in flex. The original question was actually about flex not about whether or not this should be 1) defined as an extension lead and 2) should extension leads be part of an EICR.

I am quite aware that the EICR report is for the fixed wiring only which is why I questioned your response. You wrote a poorly worded and confusing answer (by your own admission) and then proceeded to question should I be doing this type of work because I responded to your post.

Its people like you that really make we want to quit this forum. I'm sure you may offer some modicum of advice on threads here and there and you may be respected by some of your fellow old school electricians forum buddies who also offer the same old type of condescending, non-constructive, off topic comment such as "should you be doing this sort of work".

I question whether you should be commenting in forums but this country is all about freedom of speech so I suspect even those who struggle to convey themselves in a civilised and educated manner must be allowed to provail. I ask that since you don't know me, my knowledge, my experience or anything else about me, you don't question my motive, you simply either respond to the original post, or don't comment.

@Spoon thanks for your discussion and input into this thread.

I would personally not include plugged appliances or plugged additions however I may comment on the lack of socket outlets and the means by which additional outlets have been enabled. I see no problem with flexible cords connected direct to the fixed wiring provided it it suitably installed, terminated and restrained at points of entry.
If any of the "extension leads" were seen to be visibly dangerous there is every chance I would make a comment in the Report.

If they are just that Extension leads, then they should be ignored / omitted from the EICR, however if they are hard wired then they must be include

 

[westward10]

I generally do ignore them Pete but if any are blatantly dangerous like wired in two core there is every chance I will comment on it.

 

[Dave OCD]

A few years ago I came across a lead plugged in to a double socket - the other end also had a plug fitted 'feeding' a double socket fixed to the wall !!

 

[Spoon]

A few years ago I came across a lead plugged in to a double socket - the other end also had a plug fitted 'feeding' a double socket fixed to the wall !!

Maybe they couldn't afford them bluetooth power sockets....

 

[123]

A few years ago I came across a lead plugged in to a double socket - the other end also had a plug fitted 'feeding' a double socket fixed to the wall !!

The good old window maker, I've seen it a couple of times. Also seen it a fair bit on domestic backup generators, where instead of an appliance inlet they have used a commando socket, so the lead is plug-plug

 

[Octopus]

I came across a 2G socket in a kitchen last year, spured off a socket in the adjacent room - the cable was 0.75mm flex

Needless to say the flex was removed.

 

[Des 56]

The good old window maker, I've seen it a couple of times. Also seen it a fair bit on domestic backup generators, where instead of an appliance inlet they have used a commando socket, so the lead is plug-plug

I suppose that means there re are a lot of grieving good old window maker widows as well

 

[ipf]

I came across a 2G socket in a kitchen last year, spured off a socket in the adjacent room - the cable was 0.75mm flex

Needless to say the flex was removed.

Aye......found a fused spur for a burglar alarm.....fed in alarm cable from a double socket......at least he'd doubled up the cores, though!

Back to thread.....I never like flex used for permanent installs, certainly on power circuits. All has been discussed, I know, but I would generally include it in the notes as inappropriate wiring....after all, a report has a lot to do with your opinion.

 

[ipf]

Aye......found a fused spur for a burglar alarm.....fed in alarm cable from a double socket......at least he'd doubled up the cores, though!

Back to thread.....I never like flex used for permanent installs, certainly on power circuits. All has been discussed, I know, but I would generally include it in the notes as inappropriate wiring....after all, a report has a lot to do with your opinion.

edit. Baffled with that repeat???

 

[Spoon]

Back to thread.....I never like flex used for permanent installs, certainly on power circuits.

I'm not sure the flex was used for permanent install. I'm waiting for @charlie76 to reply to my question at the end of my post #17.

 

[GeorgeCooke]

I believe a bit of confusion may be arising from your use of the word plug when you presumably mean socket.

Also about the use of the word(s) plugtop when he means plug.