France wiring question

[Yogi Bear]

Sorry, my first time posting a question here.
So before you berate me...
Yes I do have qualifications.......but my area of work is very specific. No I havent updated to 18th edition yet
I have bought the book from Amazon relating to the French norms, but not received it yet.
This question relates to my own holiday property in France which hasn't had the electrics touched for at least 25 years.
With Covid and having spare time on my hands and it long being past due, I am planning to update / rewire the property.
To make my life easier I would like to purchase as much as possible in the UK to take with me when I eventually get back there (obviously not cables / sockets etc). In France I only have easy access to what is available at the dIY stores like Leroy Merlin and Bricocash.
In the UK I would commonly use Hager RCBOs in the consumer Unit. Now I know that they wouldn't meet the requirement for Frances 2 pole isolation for Final circuits, but are there products that would, which are available in the UK? I assume that as our product comply to EN standards they should be OK to use in France?

Secondly, would my installation tester be adequate or are the test requirements different.

I know that I will have to get this inspected by a local electrician, but if I can ensure that everything is documented and written up for them, then hopefully this wont be too difficult.

TIA

 

[Mike Johnson]

I am not at my laptop at the moment, but have a Wholesaler in Ireland that supplies dual pole Hager RCD's and even dual pole RCBO's, I will post it for you later, UK single core cable is compliant with the French norms, but must be in plastic Gain/conduit.

JFI you do not have to get this inspected by a French electrician, everything you do beyond the main S type Disconjoncture is your responsibility and does not have to be signed off if you already have a supply in your property.

Any MFT you have will be sufficient.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Link to the Wholesaler: https://www.electricalwholesaler.ie...hgeardistribution/rcboresidualcurrentbreakers

Lots of regulations though on special circuits, what book have you bought? This is the best one you can get: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Linstallat...p-2212674945/dp/2212674945/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

 

[Yogi Bear]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes thats the book ive ordered.

Some of what has prompted this, is just before lock down, EDF (or their sub con) tried changing us onto a smart meter, but deemed that it was not safe enough for them to do so. As far as im aware the tails on their side of the install are probably undersized and crispy :/ The engineer raised an emergency job with EDF to sort, but they hadnt by the time we left.
I had taken photos to remind me of the details but dont have them to hand.
We are fed via overhead cables.
I undertand that the disconjuncture is supposed to be EDF property and supplied by them, but I also see that I can buy one off the shelf in Bricocash?
There is also another unit which to me looks like an old choke but not sure. I dont see that there is a modern replacement for this from what ive read.

Any way Ive lots of questions, but I will wait fo the book and try to answer them myself.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Your right the Disconjoncture de Branchment is the property of EDF, the choke could be the power setting unit that prevents you from using more amps than the tariff you have paid for, the DB will trip if you do, as I said above everything up to the DB is the responsibility of EDF, everything after that is the consumers responsibility, it is only on initial connection that the installation would be checked, but they are very relaxed about it even if its only one socked and one light fitting as long as its safe they will connect, their main concern is an earth that is below 200Ω, (although they like it below 100Ω), on the TT system which most supplies are this normally is achieved by an external spike. If you want to know anything specific just ask.

Just thought, if you have your web browser set to "always translate French" then this will be the most useful site you can find: https://www.schema-electrique.net/mise-a-la-terre-installation-electrique-norme-NF-C-15-100.html Scroll to the bottom of the page after reading the earthing requirements and there is a drop down list with everything you need to know.

But do let us know how you get on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Another thought, one thing you will not glean from books or the above web site is that power into French units in the DB (MCB's, RCD's ect) are top supplied, the opposite of the UK, they are also staggered so two separate combs can be used for supply and neutral, RCBO's seem to be a law unto themselves and I had to wire them individually for the washing machine and tumble dryer etc: in the utility/shower room.

Just as a quick add, any RCD (DDL) must only have a maximum of eight circuits off it.
Sockets are now classified as the number of outlets, i.e. a two socket outlet is two sockets, the maximum allowed is twelve if supplied by 2.5mm cable and eight if supplied by 1.5mm cable.

 

[Mike Johnson]

According to FE many, many many UK people in France desperate for electricians, especially in the Dordogne area, most working over there are booked up for the next six months and that's without doing any EICR's which are not part of French culture.

 

[John-SJW]

Another thought, one thing you will not glean from books or the above web site is that power into French units in the DB (MCB's, RCD's ect) are top supplied, the opposite of the UK, they are also staggered so two separate combs can be used for supply and neutral, RCBO's seem to be a law unto themselves and I had to wire them individually for the washing machine and tumble dryer etc: in the utility/shower room.

Just as a quick add, any RCD (DDL) must only have a maximum of eight circuits off it.
Sockets are now classified as the number of outlets, i.e. a two socket outlet is two sockets, the maximum allowed is twelve if supplied by 2.5mm cable and eight if supplied by 1.5mm cable.

Mike, are DP RCBOs available in France in the likes of Leroy Merlin?

I was considering changing the innards of a 50 year old plastic semi-in-the-wall Legrand main panel that has fuses - in an apartment. It is easy to fit some DIN rail where the fuses are, but two RCDs would make matters problematic for space, as I intend to use the existing plastic enclosure. Are two RCDs needed? Is the NFC 15-100 that strict?

Using RCBOs would solve it as all can be in the one rail, but I have not seen any for sale in France yet. Are they available? They would solve it all.

I see the off the shelf Legrand main panels in Leroy Merlin have two RCDs, with different values.

 

[originalbigal]

From the DIY site . Thanks Mike for replying, we have been in France for a number of years and are currently on our 3rd &4th full restoration having completed two ( plus one in blighty ) . Although not qualified I have through experience and extensive research and of course Gallauziaux & Fedullo .... l,installation electrique quite a good grounding in the dark arts, although I do get a bit stumped some areas. We have a friend whose uncle is a retired sparky (French) who said he,d run his eyes over our installations to highlight any problem areas so in a way we are pretty much covered , but we do not want abuse his hospitality so we will not call on his services unless absolutely necessary . Again on discovering this forum I will use the generous services of the contributors when I reach an impasse which may be soon as my wife wants underfloor heating and air to water heat pumps ,( I want a rest and a motorbike ) so I guess I,ll contact you soon. Cheers.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Seems you have most bases covered, if you are on your third and forth renovation, you obviously are a professional/commercial renovator in which case you should employ professional tradesman to carry out the work you are going to sell on to clients with the indemnity of the professional ten year insurance required of any tradesman in France.

 

[LastManOnline]

RCBO's seem to be a law unto themselves and I had to wire them individually

Am curious about this comment.Just wondered if it was down to the unavailability of the correct busbar for double pole Hagar rcbo,s that required you to wire them individually.?

 

[Mike Johnson]

RCBO's in France are rare so they where bought in the UK from an Irish Wholesaler this meant they where the reverse of the norm for France having the neutral and phase out at the bottom and supply at the top, in a row of MCB's off an RCD meant wiring them individually, they where also on different Phase's for the white goods in the Bathroom.