Garden circuit design

[skamuk]

I understand, really I do. It just seems some people are reluctant to help at all, because I lack experience, qualifications and knowledge in some place or another. Id help anyone with anything if I knew the answers to their questions. I don't take it personally, it just confuses me!

 

[Octopus]

If a RCD trips without any thing connected to it, I'd be back down the wholesalers for a replacement.

 

[skamuk]

If a RCD trips without any thing connected to it, I'd be back down the wholesalers for a replacement.

I'll be doing exactly that tomorrow, I thought I was loosing the plot!

I was going to wire it up at home to see if the same thing happens but as you say it shouldn't trip without anything connected anyway...

 

[skamuk]

Are you sure this is a good idea?

Just realised you highlighted where I mentioned clipping SWA to fence. I figured it would be ok as you only have to bury SWA if damage is likely to occur for instance on a driveway or main road, or where 'pedestrians' could damage it. Most of it is concealed under decking and the rest is clipped to fence above flower bed.

 

[skamuk]

Resurrecting this one purely to inform you all that a fault on the 'feed' side of RCD spur can cause it to trip! I went back to the wholesalers a good few weeks back and got a replacement RCD spur. Wired it up this week and it still instantaneously trips. I decided to test my installation AGAIN! By disconnecting it at the socket I spurred from in the house and disconnected all loads in the shed. Carried out Continuity L-N L-E N-E, none present. Continuity of earth neutral line all around 0.4ohms... IR all good...

Cut a long story short there was voltage present in the cpc of downstairs ring, which if RCD's were present in CU would not be allowed to run under normal operating conditions. Therefore tripping the RCD in the shed that I'm trying to install!

I've told him to get the council round to test and inspect, judging by the age of the consumer unit he will probably end up with a rewire as he is now receiving electric shocks when he stands on the grass outside the door of his shed whilst reaching for the metal clad socket I have installed next to what would be an rcd (but is just a junction box atm). Obviously due to the potential difference between the socket and the ground outside.

Was quite funny watching him demonstrate how he gets the shock (standing on the grass with no shoes on and even funnier watching him try to get one (after explaining the science) when standing in the shed itself (insulated from the ground)!

 

[HandySparks]

...as he is now receiving electric shocks when he stands on the grass outside the door of his shed whilst reaching for the metal clad socket I have installed next to what would be an rcd (but is just a junction box atm). Obviously due to the potential difference between the socket and the ground outside.

Hope your public liability insurance is up to date.

Seriously though, why did you leave this new work in a dangerous condition?

 

[electric will]

Resurrecting this one purely to inform you all that a fault on the 'feed' side of RCD spur can cause it to trip! I went back to the wholesalers a good few weeks back and got a replacement RCD spur. Wired it up this week and it still instantaneously trips. I decided to test my installation AGAIN! By disconnecting it at the socket I spurred from in the house and disconnected all loads in the shed. Carried out Continuity L-N L-E N-E, none present. Continuity of earth neutral line all around 0.4ohms... IR all good...

Cut a long story short there was voltage present in the cpc of downstairs ring, which if RCD's were present in CU would not be allowed to run under normal operating conditions. Therefore tripping the RCD in the shed that I'm trying to install!

I've told him to get the council round to test and inspect, judging by the age of the consumer unit he will probably end up with a rewire as he is now receiving electric shocks when he stands on the grass outside the door of his shed whilst reaching for the metal clad socket I have installed next to what would be an rcd (but is just a junction box atm). Obviously due to the potential difference between the socket and the ground outside.

Was quite funny watching him demonstrate how he gets the shock (standing on the grass with no shoes on and even funnier watching him try to get one (after explaining the science) when standing in the shed itself (insulated from the ground)!

and you've really left it like this?
Sure this isn't a wind up?

 

[ackbarthestar]

Resurrecting this one purely to inform you all that a fault on the 'feed' side of RCD spur can cause it to trip! I went back to the wholesalers a good few weeks back and got a replacement RCD spur. Wired it up this week and it still instantaneously trips. I decided to test my installation AGAIN! By disconnecting it at the socket I spurred from in the house and disconnected all loads in the shed. Carried out Continuity L-N L-E N-E, none present. Continuity of earth neutral line all around 0.4ohms... IR all good...

Cut a long story short there was voltage present in the cpc of downstairs ring, which if RCD's were present in CU would not be allowed to run under normal operating conditions. Therefore tripping the RCD in the shed that I'm trying to install!

I've told him to get the council round to test and inspect, judging by the age of the consumer unit he will probably end up with a rewire as he is now receiving electric shocks when he stands on the grass outside the door of his shed whilst reaching for the metal clad socket I have installed next to what would be an rcd (but is just a junction box atm). Obviously due to the potential difference between the socket and the ground outside.

Was quite funny watching him demonstrate how he gets the shock (standing on the grass with no shoes on and even funnier watching him try to get one (after explaining the science) when standing in the shed itself (insulated from the ground)!

I just popped in so that I could just pop out. There is definitely the sniff of ex-military about this.....

One of my ex students was grabbed by a couple of blokes in a helicopter and hoisted into the air just for fun !

 

[Octopus]

Resurrecting this one purely to inform you all that a fault on the 'feed' side of RCD spur can cause it to trip! I went back to the wholesalers a good few weeks back and got a replacement RCD spur. Wired it up this week and it still instantaneously trips. I decided to test my installation AGAIN! By disconnecting it at the socket I spurred from in the house and disconnected all loads in the shed. Carried out Continuity L-N L-E N-E, none present. Continuity of earth neutral line all around 0.4ohms... IR all good...

Cut a long story short there was voltage present in the cpc of downstairs ring, which if RCD's were present in CU would not be allowed to run under normal operating conditions. Therefore tripping the RCD in the shed that I'm trying to install!

I've told him to get the council round to test and inspect, judging by the age of the consumer unit he will probably end up with a rewire as he is now receiving electric shocks when he stands on the grass outside the door of his shed whilst reaching for the metal clad socket I have installed next to what would be an rcd (but is just a junction box atm). Obviously due to the potential difference between the socket and the ground outside.

Was quite funny watching him demonstrate how he gets the shock (standing on the grass with no shoes on and even funnier watching him try to get one (after explaining the science) when standing in the shed itself (insulated from the ground)!

And you aren't willing to sort this out? Madness.

And I'm guessing that you are simply lacking in competence and shouldn't be goingt round, installing in peoples houses and running away

 

[kingeri]

to Skamuk - I fail to see anything funny in what you've described. If I were you I'd be feeling something more like shame.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Just to add. It is unwise to install M/C equipment outside the EPBZ particularly on a PME system. Mind you it doesn't appear to make much difference as you're all having fun getting poked by the suppliers floating neutral voltage.
As it is going to be hot today, why not get the hose pipes out and spread a bit of water

 

[skamuk]

I told him to get the council out as it is their responsibility. I'm not going to start re-wiring his house! Council are due round on monday, they can test and inspect and deal with the problem as it's their job. I'm not a registered electrician I have just completed my 2365 L2 at college. I only did the job as he is a relative. He tells me hes had electric shock from a socket and light switch within the house before and the rcd socket in the kitchen has never worked, he has always been aware of dodgy wiring but didn't think to tell me before I installed the garden stuff.

My additional circuit/spur has been isolated for the time being until the council sort out the problem.

I realize now that I should have tested the house wiring first. My mistake!

Can I ask why it is un-wise to install metal clad in shed outside? I figured it would be better mechanical protection and stronger connection of SWA without need for metal JB to terminate SWA into. If I had used plastic he wouldn't have called me informing me of a problem as he wouldn't of got a shock!

Its funny that everyone here criticizes me for being in the wrong but you were all convinced that an RCD spur can't be tripped on the FEED side, leading me to believe that the RCD was FKD not the system in the house! I came here for advice, no-one advised me to test the house before installing.

I didn't come here for a debate, just wanted to inform you that RCD spurs can be tripped by supply.. I'm staying away from electrical work until the day I start my apprenticeship as its not worth getting things wrong! You live and learn. Thanks for your feedback

 

[ackbarthestar]

Was quite funny watching him demonstrate how he gets the shock (standing on the grass with no shoes on and even funnier watching him try to get one (after explaining the science) when standing in the shed itself (insulated from the ground)!

So was he able to stand on the ground while touching the M/C RCD socket/FCU or was this some fictional anecdote?

Can I ask why it is un-wise to install metal clad in shed outside? I figured it would be better mechanical protection and stronger connection of SWA without need for metal JB to terminate SWA into. If I had used plastic he wouldn't have called me informing me of a problem as he wouldn't of got a shock!

A 2.5mm2 SWA will terminate perfectly well into something like a masterseal IP rated box and it means you are not exporting an exposed conductive part where you are very likely to get microshocks.

Of course, the more insulation there is between you and the ground the less of a shock you will experience.

So for a PME installation the MET earths will be connected to the supply neutral where the voltage will float depending upon the neutral length and loading downstream

 

[skamuk]

So was he able to stand on the ground while touching the M/C RCD socket/FCU or was this some fictional anecdote?



A 2.5mm2 SWA will terminate perfectly well into something like a masterseal IP rated box and it means you are not exporting an exposed conductive part where you are very likely to get microshocks.

Of course, the more insulation there is between you and the ground the less of a shock you will experience.

So for a PME installation the MET earths will be connected to the supply neutral where the voltage will float depending upon the neutral length and loading downstream

When he touched any of the M/C in the shed whilst stood on the grass, with just socks on, he got a shock. My uncle is a nut case and demonstrated more than once that he receives electric shock!! When he stepped into the shed which happened to have an insulation board laying on the floor, he received no shock at all, no matter how hard he tried.

I need to do some more research on PME as i find it hard to understand. I still don't understand why the E is taken from the same point as the N... I expect more lessons on this in 2365 L3.

Have just found this but have had a few beers and am now off to the pub garden for some more as the sun is beating but will have a sober read tomorrow.

the plastic masterseal box makes sense but to me is just hiding the problem that exists in the first place.

Thanks for the help and information.