Gender Neutral Confusion..............

[The Ghost]

The most salient fact in my mind to emerge from discussion is the fact that it has become a potential legal minefield especially for empoyers but also for individuals. This should not be the case as the state has no business in legislating regards how one individual thinks about another. The fact that we discuss this misses the underlying fact that the state has made it dangerous for us to hate or dislike even. That is a very ominous and sinister thought control which should never be accepted. As much as the "useful idiots" say "we are free to love who or what we want", so should it be accepted to hate or dislike as freely.
When the Law of the land requires us to acquiesce to the notion that it is perfectly normal and even desirable for society to be made up of sexually deviant practices, although in principle there may be some merits in that, we have to step back and wonder whether our ministers have lost the plot!
Where we do not accept that notion and voice it, we may be prosecuted and put in to a prison. This may ruin our lives and business and destroy our family, but no matter, as long as the feelings of someone who is offended is protected all is good. Or is it? Sadly there are many "useful idiots" who will support this state of affairs (they hate the haters!) by ostracising and attacking anyone who does not support these abnormalities.
P.S.
deviant
ˈdiːvɪənt/
adjective
adjective: deviant
1.
departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour.
"deviant behaviour"

 

[Squid]

Yes, it is, because they are the most vocal and cause the most trouble, and also because anyone that speaks out against their agenda is branded as a hater, sometimes being publicly doxed, abused and shamed for daring to have a different opinion to these people.

It's the same sort of situation that exists in the UK with regards to say the Muslim rape gangs (amongst other things). People dare not speak out because they fear the consequences.

Normal decent people knuckle down and get on with their lives, there are far too many people only interested in stirring things up, we all have worked with someone who just complains and moans all the time, the barrack room lawyer we used to call them, we know have the people wanting to get rid of statues that have stood for 150 years due to issues with slavery and the colonial past, me being of Polish decent do I go after the muslims and ask them for an apology due to the Ottoman empire enslaving the Slavs in the 13th and 14th century?

 

[grumpyjohn01]

Well we here in the UK are in the midst of such things as you mention @Marvo. It has been given legal credence and there are moves to remove gender assignment from passports. Clearly people are latching on to this movement of gender disphoria. i.e. being creative regarding ones biological sex. I see that some people describe this as cultural marxism. What underpins society is gender role assignment based on obvious biological facts which in turn form the family unit. Remove this and you undermine some of the most important underpinning tenets of a society. Which is after all is the stated aim of cultural marxism. Most disturbingly when legal acts are passed which ratify and amplify this we can be sure our government has embraced the same aims.
Some people genuinely resent and reject being pigeon holed into such a simple and obvious classification. This is an internal process which allows people to be gender fluid as it is named. And indeed why should anyone be pigeon holed? However it to my mind shows they have bought into a lie, maybe a pretty lie but lie nonetheless. Such mental processes which brook no debate or questioning presage an ominous totalitarianism, the kind of thing I feel quite allergic to.
This flies in the face of what might be called common sense. i.e. if you have a penis you are a male, if you have a vagina you are a female yes? Well...apparently no. So who will you believe the person saying they are neither either or both, or your own eyes. You may be aware of same sex marriage being legalised fairly extensively. Clearly "normal" relations and obvious sexual determinations are being stood on their head and defy logic.
I feel somewhat encouraged that some women now are back-tracking on feminism and deciding maybe being career rich and relationship poor are not good life choices. And that maybe men should be men and women should be women, who knows eh?
I have been most disturbed to find my grandchildren (boys, male)coming home from school talking of wanting to be a female as they have decided that today as a result of classroom teaching. With that and other matters I decided to withdraw them from school and home educate them. While others may debate the above I do not.
I do feel sorry for S.A. if that is looming on your agenda. I suggest as others here have you take vigorous legal advice regarding how you will deal with this as it grows. Not only for applicants but also for people who are employed with you and sufficiently immersed in cultural marxism as to cause you great distress when you say or do the wrong thing. Many have been sacrificed here on the altar of political correctness (read cultural marxism)

Somebody took the red pill, respect!

 

[Squid]

I am gender neutral so from now on I will use the ladies changing rooms at the gym..........

 

[Midwest]

The most salient fact in my mind to emerge from discussion is the fact that it has become a potential legal minefield especially for empoyers but also for individuals. This should not be the case as the state has no business in legislating regards how one individual thinks about another. The fact that we discuss this misses the underlying fact that the state has made it dangerous for us to hate or dislike even. That is a very ominous and sinister thought control which should never be accepted. As much as the "useful idiots" say "we are free to love who or what we want", so should it be accepted to hate or dislike as freely.
When the Law of the land requires us to acquiesce to the notion that it is perfectly normal and even desirable for society to be made up of sexually deviant practices, although in principle there may be some merits in that, we have to step back and wonder whether our ministers have lost the plot!
Where we do not accept that notion and voice it, we may be prosecuted and put in to a prison. This may ruin our lives and business and destroy our family, but no matter, as long as the feelings of someone who is offended is protected all is good. Or is it? Sadly there are many "useful idiots" who will support this state of affairs (they hate the haters!) by ostracising and attacking anyone who does not support these abnormalities.
P.S.
deviant
ˈdiːvɪənt/
adjective
adjective: deviant
1.
departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour.
"deviant behaviour"

We could all be exactly the same, therefore there would be no probability of anybody disliking anyone for anything or have reason to.

Shall we go for blond hair & blue eyes. Seem to recall someone had that idea once.

 

[Leesparkykent]

I am gender neutral so from now on I will use the ladies changing rooms at the gym..........

I thought as much from your strap line.....

 

[telectrix]

looks like we're all here:

 

[UNG]

Sparky Chick's posts are right on the nail

Just for info, the guy isn't likely to make an interview, there are several better qualified and more experience candidates.

No matter how you carry out your selection process there will be grounds for an accusation of discrimination from the lesser suitable candidates or there would be in the UK.
It appears that the minority these days have influence over the majority and use it to the maximum although their discrimination is called Political Correctness

 

[SparkyChick]

If being gender neutral is in the mind, then there's no difference with that and believing in a God. Yet religion, belief or lack of religion/belief is one of the protected characteristics.

I have mixed feelings about whether religion should feature as one of the protected characteristics.

Providing it has no impact on the business, each to their own.

But in some cases it can cause inconvenience for the business and it's staff, it can cost the business money and can cause ill feeling amongst staff if religion is the basis on which some special treatment is meated out (for example someone is allowed to break uniform policy for the sake of their religion).

So, I don't think you should be allowed to discriminate against someone because of it (unless there is an operational reason - a devout Muslim girl who insists on wearing the burka for example wouldn't make a very good makeup counter girl), but I don't think it should allow employees carte blanch to make demands of their employers that someone from another faith/no faith could not make. Using the example of uniform policy... if it states no necklaces, then that means no necklaces... it should not mean no necklaces unless they are a religious item in which case, do as you please.

Part of the reason I have mixed feelings about it is that many of the characteristics that are protected are biological in origin (age, being transsexual, disability, race, sex, sexual orientation)... religion isn't... religion is a choice (some may argue this, but ultimately you can elect to leave religion and unless you were indoctrinated as a child, there is a good chance you made a conscious decision to follow a faith), just like being married (or in a civil partnership) or being pregnant. Why should the choices people make afford them the same protection as biological factors they have no control over?

The biggest problem I have with a lot of this stuff is it started out as a drive for equal treatment for all. I believe we've had that for quite some time (at least for the vast majority of people - age, race, sex are the big three I think here, disability still has some way to go I feel, but I think that is down to the ability to overcome the physical or mental issues an individual is suffering), now it seems it's being used to get things others (not on the protected list) can't. Take feminists for example... 2nd wave feminists achieved equality of opportunity which is what the sex discrimination act aimed to ensure, but that's not good enough... 3rd wave feminists want equality of outcome and the sad thing is, they are making progress towards achieving that... quota based hiring for example, and edicts from government about how big companies should have 50% female boards. WTF? That's just plain wrong in every single way.

Tagging yourself in a way that puts you in one of the protected categories can give you the upper hand compared to others (positive discrimination, to meet an equality quota for example, can push an otherwise unacceptable candidate up the short list), and that's partly why I have such a huge issue with the whole non-binary, gender fluid thing, that and the vast majority of people involved in the social justice movement are completely incapable of listening to other people with whom they disagree.

This thread is a fine example of adult discourse about a subject that is quite contentious... people are listening to other peoples points of view, offering counter arguments and opinions, are questioning and most importantly, we are all accepting that not everyone believes as we do and we're doing it without violence, without intimidation, we're just talking. This is the kind of discussion that needs to take place in society as a whole about things just like this, but that simply will not happen whilst people are afraid of the potential fall out. As @Vortigern suggested, get it wrong and the consequences can be severe, it really can ruin you. I don't believe I've incited hatred or violence, nor would I, but my opinions do fundamentally disagree with a lot of the leftist agenda that's present in politics and the mainstream media and by simply voicing these opinions, in the eyes of some I have committed an act of hate speech.

How sad it is that in the world in which we live, having an opinion that differs from a tiny fraction of the population and voicing it is enough to potentially ruin me.

Ultimately, unless someone is pushing an agenda, I'll treat everyone in the manner I would like them to treat me... fairly, with respect and like an adult. Where it goes from there is up to them and their actions.

 

[The Ghost]

We could all be exactly the same

We are fundamentally, look where that got us.

 

[JK-Electrical]

Well we here in the UK are in the midst of such things as you mention @Marvo. It has been given legal credence and there are moves to remove gender assignment from passports. Clearly people are latching on to this movement of gender disphoria. i.e. being creative regarding ones biological sex. I see that some people describe this as cultural marxism. What underpins society is gender role assignment based on obvious biological facts which in turn form the family unit. Remove this and you undermine some of the most important underpinning tenets of a society. Which is after all is the stated aim of cultural marxism. Most disturbingly when legal acts are passed which ratify and amplify this we can be sure our government has embraced the same aims.
Some people genuinely resent and reject being pigeon holed into such a simple and obvious classification. This is an internal process which allows people to be gender fluid as it is named. And indeed why should anyone be pigeon holed? However it to my mind shows they have bought into a lie, maybe a pretty lie but lie nonetheless. Such mental processes which brook no debate or questioning presage an ominous totalitarianism, the kind of thing I feel quite allergic to.
This flies in the face of what might be called common sense. i.e. if you have a penis you are a male, if you have a vagina you are a female yes? Well...apparently no. So who will you believe the person saying they are neither either or both, or your own eyes. You may be aware of same sex marriage being legalised fairly extensively. Clearly "normal" relations and obvious sexual determinations are being stood on their head and defy logic.
I feel somewhat encouraged that some women now are back-tracking on feminism and deciding maybe being career rich and relationship poor are not good life choices. And that maybe men should be men and women should be women, who knows eh?
I have been most disturbed to find my grandchildren (boys, male)coming home from school talking of wanting to be a female as they have decided that today as a result of classroom teaching. With that and other matters I decided to withdraw them from school and home educate them. While others may debate the above I do not.
I do feel sorry for S.A. if that is looming on your agenda. I suggest as others here have you take vigorous legal advice regarding how you will deal with this as it grows. Not only for applicants but also for people who are employed with you and sufficiently immersed in cultural marxism as to cause you great distress when you say or do the wrong thing. Many have been sacrificed here on the altar of political correctness (read cultural marxism)

Well said Vortigern. You have summated my own views to a tee and I couldn't have put it any better myself. The evil scum of the Frankfurt School have much to answer for.

I have no time for any of this politically correct insanity and refuse to accept any of it. You know things have gotten out of hand when those who refuse to accept 'gender neutrality', 'gender fluidity' and non binary' theories are threatened with fines and threatened with charges of 'hate crime'. FFS.

I personally don't care whether a male identifies as a woman or vice-versa, or whether a male or a female identifies as neither male or female because as far as I'm concerned, if you were born male, then a man you are and a man you will always be. And if you were born female, then a woman you are, and a woman you will always be. Simples. I cite the evidence provided by Dr. Paul R. McHugh in support.

If I were to announce that I identify as a carrot, painted my body orange and dyed my hair green, does this therefore mean that I'm a carrot?

 

[Midwest]

Its not leftie issum, its not right'y issuem, its just about learning to get on with everyone. Life is to short to argue, quarrel or fight.

I know its easy to pluck quotes from the web these days, but these have stuck in my mind over time;

'No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite'. Nelson Mandela

'Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal'. JFK

'What you do not what done to yourself, do not do to others' Confucius

Simply really

 

[JK-Electrical]

Boy removed from school in transgender rights row

 

[Pete999]

Normal decent people knuckle down and get on with their lives, there are far too many people only interested in stirring things up, we all have worked with someone who just complains and moans all the time, the barrack room lawyer we used to call them, we know have the people wanting to get rid of statues that have stood for 150 years due to issues with slavery and the colonial past, me being of Polish decent do I go after the muslims and ask them for an apology due to the Ottoman empire enslaving the Slavs in the 13th and 14th century?

Boy removed from school in transgender rights row

The mind boggles

 

[Midwest]

I was listening to this story, makes you wonder if the parents have made the boys mind up, unless there is a medical reasoning about gender?

Not similar to our unsuccessful job applicant though, presume he or she is over 16