Good news!

[D Skelton]

I've been invited by Mr Betts' office to attend Parliament on the 6th to sit on the panel at the next committee meeting enquiring into the effectiveness of self certification schemes!

I hope Parliamentary privileges extend to me, I am known for being rather outspoken!

 

[Geordie Spark]

I'll need it. As confident as I am, I'm not too proud to admit that I'll be pretty nervous on the day!

Just take a really good look at them all and imagine them naked without their smart suits.

You'll be fine after that!

 

[Darkwood]

What route and what skills? ... a gift for bullsh*t, denyable lies and no morals whatsoever aside!

Was referring to the fact that even if you do the full college course now you don't leave with half the knowledge you were expected to have 20+ yrs ago, also you now have to opt for additional courses to get what used to be all part of the package....

Note not a dig at the students here but the education system they were taught under.

Its not hard to see when you have watched the industry for 30yrs and can do the comparison i mean they are coming out of school with poor maths and science abilities even though it says A+ on their sheet (look at the recent world education comparison tables)... the knock on effect of this is all further educational courses have had to be dumbed down to follow suit or no-one would have passed.

 

[D Skelton]

So Clive Betts asks YOU what you would do to improve the situation, what would YOU say?

I would say that ideally a government run scheme needs to be put into place where the minimum standard of qualification to be deemed competent to work anywhere in the industry, domestic, commercial or industrial is NVQ3. The assessments would have to be much more in depth and would involve more than one job, say five or six. The technical ability of the supervisors would have to be strictly assessed as would their theory based knowledge. A much higher importance would be placed on their knowledge of the regs. If the company was large enough then their design department would also heve to be assessed.

I would recommend that without delay he strip the rights of the current 'competent' persons schemes to operate.

The cost of joining and renewing with the new government run scheme would have to be assessed to ensure that both the cost to the contractor would be kept as low as possible and the income of the scheme is enough to keep it running effectively (a fine balancing act I know, but still achievable), however renewal assessments would be made every three years instead of every one. I would introduce rules that meant that a large proportion of income for the scheme would have to be put towards raising public awareness of electrical safety and the importance of using a qualified electrician and the penalties for not doing so. I would make the complaints procedure easy for the consumer and ensure that enforcement was backed by statute, ie. you carry out pony work you get one chance to mend your ways and after that, if the standard of work doesn't improve your right to work as an electrician is stripped away from you for good.

I would also recommend the introduction of an electricians licence, backed by statute. Legislation would then need to be introduced to restrict the purchasing of any electrical equipment bar the very essentials (plug tops, fuses, lamps etc...) to licenced electricians only. Practising unlicenced electrical work would have to be punishable by severe fines and/or imprisonment.

Those would be my recommendations, however, we have to realise that we don't live in an ideal world. Compromises would have to be made unfortunately.

 

[Jeffmo65]

Can I interject . With reference to the infamous competency issue . My old boss has been in the electrical business for about 40 years , he has technician status , has passed his 2391 bla bla , yet he has sat behind a desk for the last 10 years . Now I no longer work for him and wish to carry out a rewire ( scenario ) . Unfortunately I don't have 2391 or whatever it is now but was his qualifying supervisor and installation manager for a considerable time ( assessed by NICEIC ) . I did a
Part P thing , not for the electrical side but just so I was aware of the upto date requirements for building regs . Spoke to LABC about rewire ( bearing in mind I would want to use this job for CPS assessment ) No sorry they say your not competent to do that because no 2391 , so my old boss would be . Part P and CPS 's do my head in . Thoughts please

 

[Jeffmo65]

I am not so struck on the NVQ 3 b"£$%%%s unless the government want to pay to put all old timer sparkies like me through that one . However agree with Licenced as in the States and Canada

 

[D Skelton]

Can I interject . With reference to the infamous competency issue . My old boss has been in the electrical business for about 40 years , he has technician status , has passed his 2391 bla bla , yet he has sat behind a desk for the last 10 years . Now I no longer work for him and wish to carry out a rewire ( scenario ) . Unfortunately I don't have 2391 or whatever it is now but was his qualifying supervisor and installation manager for a considerable time ( assessed by NICEIC ) . I did a
Part P thing , not for the electrical side but just so I was aware of the upto date requirements for building regs . Spoke to LABC about rewire ( bearing in mind I would want to use this job for CPS assessment ) No sorry they say your not competent to do that because no 2391 , so my old boss would be . Part P and CPS 's do my head in . Thoughts please

Are you fully qualified (NVQ3)? If so then that is nonsense IMHO. Your boss is competent because he has his tech card, regardless of how many years he's been sat behind a desk, but you, if fully qual'd, are also competent.

 

[Jeffmo65]

Also I think there might be a slight under the table hand shake from the big sheds with regards to purchasing equipment . Like I think said somewhere else . Person - shower switch in one hand 2.5 flex in the other , don't you just love DIYers . But ofcourse must get a plumber in to do my boiler aaarrrggghhh

 

[D Skelton]

I am not so struck on the NVQ 3 b"£$%%%s unless the government want to pay to put all old timer sparkies like me through that one . However agree with Licenced as in the States and Canada

There has to be allowances made. The JIB will grant you a gold card if you completed an apprenticeship 'way back when'. If you're that much of an old timer and have completed an apprenticeship then you have in my opinion the equivalent of an NVQ3.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i`ll have to read this properly before i comment....

just so it dont get all over infused...

 

[D Skelton]

Also I think there might be a slight under the table hand shake from the big sheds with regards to purchasing equipment

There's no need for that now, but if it was ever suggested that this would be banned in the future, some may suspect that there would be a few brown envolopes greasing the right hands to prevent this from happening!

Not that this is what I think of course!

 

[Jeffmo65]

If you class as NVQ 3 as fully qualified , I believe and please excuse me for this , a little nieve . Does full apprentiship ( obviously not in spelling ) and 20 years experience count for nothing or can I get away with a few pictures of work that someone else has done . 10 years behind a desk and isn't quite sure that 16th edition is over with ?

 

[D Skelton]

Does full apprentiship ( obviously not in spelling ) and 20 years experience count for nothing

Full apprenticeship = fully qual'd in my eyes. Ok maybe NVQ might be a bad way to put it, a better way might be to say "An electrician who has completed a full apprenticeship and gained an NVQ3 or the equivalent of an NVQ3 before 'such and such a date', is eligible to apply for an electricians licence."

 

[Jeffmo65]

I have ' a Gold card ' . used it once and been asked for it eerrrr never . That isn't my issue , and please don't get me going about NVQ3 . My issue is one day I am ' competent and the next day im not , yet an young lad ( nothing against newly qualified people by the way ) because a nice set of shiny certificates is more competent than someone who has done the job well for a lifetime ( work )??Im not sure it computes in my mind

 

[D Skelton]

I have ' a Gold card ' . used it once and been asked for it eerrrr never . That isn't my issue , and please don't get me going about NVQ3 . My issue is one day I am ' competent and the next day im not , yet an young lad ( nothing against newly qualified people by the way ) because a nice set of shiny certificates is more competent than someone who has done the job well for a lifetime ( work )??Im not sure it computes in my mind

Well that is the sham of the current system, one that I would very much like to see changed!

 

[Jeffmo65]

Also , I ave a friend ( a young friend ) who is just adding t his appntiship by doing NVQ3, he has spoken to JIB and even when completed wont be able to get a Gold card for 2 years , yet qualified 3 yrs ago